What a delight to have another Romancing the Vote 2026 auction winner on the show! Lindsey is a delight, not least because we discovered a shared fondness for an extremely well-known pastime…
As usual, this transcript reflects as faithfully as possible the content and tone of our conversation, with some thoughtful editing to make sure things read smoothly.
Show notes are included after this transcript. Find our chat on The Incomparable.
[jazzy jumpin’ trumpet music]
Sandra Wong: Hello and welcome. This is We Contain Multitudes, the casual interview show with our favourite people, famous and accomplished guests who share the geek-outs, hobbies, and interests which they might not necessarily be known for. It is I again, your host, Sandra Wong. Today I have the pleasure of being joined by yet another Romancing the Vote 2026 auction winner. This is Lindsey Allen. Hi, Lindsey.
Lindsey Allen: Hi.
SW: [laughs] So this is the part where I ask you, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself? What do you do with your day?
LA: So, my day job is I am actually a television writer.
SW: Oh, wow.
LA: Yeah, I’ve worked on a few shows. And then my other hobby-slash-day job-slash-for fun is that I am the Dungeon Master for an actual play podcast.
SW: Oh my gosh. Okay, so what, what show? Of course, I have to ask, what shows do you write for?
LA: So the ones you may have heard of, some of my earlier ones are Marvel’s Agent Carter.
SW: [gasps] Gasp! Gasp!
LA: I worked on the, I wrote on the [chuckles] yes, gasp. I wrote on the MacGyver remake. I wrote on a little show called Emergence. I’ve done some video game work, and then I’ve done a bunch of work that either hasn’t hit yet or I can’t talk about yet.
SW: [laughs] Yeah.
LA: The, the joy of the job.
SW: Yeah, it’s like vague posting, but [laughs] on a podcast.
LA: I know. It’s so annoying too. [laughs]
SW: And I hope, I hope it’s also very exciting.
LA: It’s very, it’s always exciting. That’s why it’s, it’s, you just kind of wait until you get to talk to people about fun things.
SW: Yeah.
LA: So but yeah, it is, it is unfortunately, just like, I swear I’m working, but we can’t talk about that part of It. [laughs]
SW: Right, right. Oh, I’m really excited for you. I’m looking forward to hearing about all these things once you can start talking about them.
LA: Yes.
SW: So okay, so let’s be clear so our friends of the podcast know, what would you like to talk to us about today? [laughs]
LA: So I would love to talk about Dungeons & Dragons.
SW: Yay!
LA: I think everyone should play it at least once.
SW: Okay. All right, so let’s start at the beginning with Lindsey’s origin story with D&D.
LA: Oh, so I actually came to D&D later than most. I was invited into a game by a friend in 2016.
SW: Okay.
LA:
And I had never played it before, but I’m always down to try a new game. I’m always down to hang out with friends, so. And he just said, come on, I think you’ll really like it. You have to create a character. So I went through the whole thing of creating a character, and we went and played a game and it was amazing. It takes several hours and I was like, thanks so much, guys. And they’re like, no, now we play in the next session. [Sandra laughs] And I said, what do you mean next session?
SW: Yeah
LA:
Because I did not know that’s how this game was played, I quickly learned. And since then I have been in several games. I started dungeon-mastering a few years after that and learning how to run games. I’m currently in quite a few games as well as the podcast, and it has become something that I love doing with friends. I love introducing new people to it, and I really love to see how the different ways people can use it as well, and the skills that you get from playing it.
SW: Okay, so a couple of things come to mind. First, your friend should have explained how you play D&D [laughs] and you play more than once, unless it’s just a one-shot and you’re only going to play once.
LA: Yes, I probably lacked the vocabulary or the knowledge at the time to even consider that as a question.
SW: I mean, but still. [Lindsey laughs] Still, if I am, if I am introducing a friend to D&D for the first time [laughs] I will let them know, Okay, it’s just going to be a little bit of a commitment, friend. You know what I’m saying? [Lindsey laughs] Okay. So do you happen to know or remember what edition of D&D that was, that you played in 2016?
LA: Oh yes! 2016 was the year of Fifth Edition.
SW: Okay.
LA: So that was when things like Stranger Things were coming out. It was really, Dungeons & Dragons was really having a resurgence, in popular culture. And it was suddenly like everyone was like, well, what is this? We should learn to play it.It became a really great entry way for people like me who had heard about it, but had never played it and didn’t really know anything about it.
SW: Yeah.
LA: So yeah, I remember exactly the year. [laughs]
SW: Okay. And what was your character?
LA: I was a Dragonborn Barbarian named Squirrel.
SW: [laughing] Uh-huh.
LA:
When I am playing role-playing games for the first time—this is true for video games as well—and I don’t know what I’m doing, and I’m concerned that I will get lost in the mechanics of it, I will try and pick something that looks super easy, which usually means play the character that swings a big ax. [Sandra cracks up] So dear Squirrel was like, seven feet tall and carried a Greataxe and that was her job. She swung the ax, she was strong, and she stayed quiet, and she learned how to play the game. [laughs]
SW: So I am trying to envision, picture…Squirrel.
LA: Yeah, Squirrel.
SW: So what color dragon was she?
LA: She was a white dragon.
SW: Oh, okay.
LA: She was a white Dragonborn. So she could spit some ice.
SW: Yeah.
LA: With her dragonbreath. Which, in Fifth Edition, veterans will know, at a certain point, dragonbreath is not useful. [both crack up] But it seemed really cool at the time, let me tell you.
SW:
Of course, like, everyone’s first character should—I mean, okay, maybe not everyone [laughs; Lindsey cracks up] but you, you would hope that your very first ever D&D character, like, you could think of with fondness and all the like, pitfalls, the, the mistakes you made creating them. Hopefully, you can think of them with fondness. My very first—I also came late to it because as a teenager, this was in the ’80s, none of the boys would let me play D&D with them. And so
LA: Yeah
SW: and that is a very common story. So people, friends of the podcast who’re playing D&D, don’t be like that. Do not be like that.
LA: It’s true.
SW: So, you know, I had to, fast forward into adulthood. And then when my children were of age [laughs] seven and ten [cracks up] that’s when we started playing.
LA: That’s a good age for it.
SW: But we— So my husband is amazing. He, of course, has been playing D&D, you know, for like, dec-ades. So he was like, okay, we’re actually going to start with Advanced D&D. So we went right—
LA: Oh wow.
SW:
We went there, you know, and like, I still remember my kids, my kids, my ten-year-old explaining to me how THAC0 works. Okay, so [both laugh] So for those of you who’ve only ever played 5e because you’re newer to the game, THAC0—t-h-a-c-zero—‘to hit armor class zero.’ That’s what it stands for. Look that up and you’ll [laughs] You’ll have to figure out how it works. I had to get my ten-year-old to explain it to me. So this was like, over ten years ago, but anyway. I always, I also think fondly of my first character who was like, just a dud.
LA: Yeah
SW: I think.
LA: Oh no. No! What was it? What was—
SW: She, she was a, she was a dwarven Cleric, with a very dark, sad backstory because—
LA: Always.
SW: —I’m a writer, so, yeah, sad backstories, hello.
LA: Yeah.
SW: You know. She was, she was a twin whose twin had died, so she was shunned from her clan.
LA: Okay, yeah.
SW: Her name was Magthana Sisterbane.
LA: Oh wow, that’s a great name.
SW: Thank you so much. [Lindsey laughs] So yeah, we called her Thana, and yeah, she was just…. I don’t know, I was just, I really loved, I fell in love with the backstory and she ended up being really dour, and it was kind of a downer to play. [cracks up] So that was my big mistake with Thana. But I still think very fondly of her, and I’ve learned since then to have a little bit more fun. [laughs]
LA: Yeah, I do feel like everyone’s first character tends to have that tragic backstory.
SW: Yeah [laughing]
LA: It’s hard and they don’t like talking to other people or strangers and they’re loners and all of that. And then you quickly realize, like, wait, it’s a group game.
SW: Yeah
LA: You’re supposed to make friends and work together, so you have to talk to them [laughs] at a certain point.
SW: So like, when you, when you played that first time, what was it that grabbed you about it, about that play?
LA: So one of the things that really struck me about it because, you know, I’m again, I was coming from traditional gaming worlds, just video games or regular board games. And so, and I still get asked this question and which is fine because I thought it too. It was like, how do you win?
SW: Oh [laughs] yeah.
LA: How do you win? And the thing with Dungeons & Dragons is, for better or for worse, you win because you get to play a game with your friends.
SW: Yeah.
LA: Like that—you’re already winning. So no matter what the dice say when you roll, because it’s one of my beloved DMs says, like, the dice tell a story too. Sometimes you’re rolling poorly.
SW: Yep.
LA: But that doesn’t mean you’re losing. And that doesn’t mean you’re having a bad game.
SW: Yeah
LA: It just means you’re taking a turn that you did not expect.
SW: Right.
LA: For the most part. And so that’s, that was really, I think where the learning curve for me with Dungeons & Dragons, was, there is no winning. There is only playing.
SW: Yeah. Yeah. So I hope you’ll be okay, if you’ll permit me to share a little bit too about, you know, my experience, with you.
LA: Yeah. I’d love to hear.
SW:
So just that, you know, because I was learning along with my kids, my tiny, adorable children. And so what I really learned was what D&D is, is interactive storytelling. What we’re doing is we’re creating a story together, and we have some of these tools called dice. We have characters we create, you know, we learn to speak with our characters’ voices, right? In talking to each other, talking to other PCs, talking to the NPCs, and like, it’s all about the story. And I think it took me a while to really get that, as well, because I was like, okay, what am I doing? I have to do this right. There’s only one right way.
LA: There’s a correct way to play the game. That’s how you win. [laughs]
SW:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly, you know? And like, I—again, shout out to my husband Kevin, who just very patiently [laughs] let the three of us figure that out on our own as we played, you know, and, and too— Probably not surprisingly, because I think children are probably a little bit better at this, my kids got it before I did. Like, they definitely, they were young, so definitely there were times like, the roll of the dice, may or may not have engendered some, some unhappiness [laughs] and maybe some sulking. But you know, I think overall they were just like, oh, okay. Okay. Well that was, that was a bad, that was not bad. And then we learned to laugh about it, you know, and stuff like that. So yeah. Yeah. Interactive storytelling, which I’m guessing must have suited you. So you showed up for the second session, yes?
LA: I showed up for many sessions, [Sandra laughs] it turns out. I have mostly played with other TV writers and people in the business.
SW: Okay.
LA:
And what I also love about it is that as you’re playing… In TV, a lot of times you write the script, you know, like, this is the perfect script, I love the script, I can’t wait for them to make this script. And then production comes to you and says, we can’t do that.
SW: Wha-at?!
LA: This is over budget. We can’t find this car. This person is unavailable for that. We can’t find a location. You have to change. And a lot of that can be frustrating, but a lot of that also, once you start working through it, you’re like, oh wait, I think the story is better because of all these restrictions
SW: Right.
LA:
that have actually been placed on it. I think it actually turned out better. And that’s what strikes me with D&D a lot, is that you set out, you’re like, come up, you know, you spend an hour coming up with an elaborate plan [both laugh] to figure out how to get this treasure or whatever you’re doing, or open a door. My, my players are big fans of long conversations about how to open a door. And you spend all this time and then you’re like, all right, here we go. And the dice just don’t want to tell that story. The dice want to do something else. They place that restriction on you. Like, well, this is no—like, doesn’t matter how long you just talked about this, you’ve got to find another way.
SW: Yeah
LA: Because the dice kind of sucks. So and then, what for the most part happens is some really beautiful creative ideas come out of your friends and the story is even better because of it. And suddenly, you have this legendary, like, interaction that you weren’t expecting, or these incredible scenes and these different NPCs that you wouldn’t have met otherwise just because the dice said, no, you can’t open that door [Sandra cracks up] try something else. [laughs]
SW: Yeah.
LA: And so it’s really like, it’s a really wonderful thing. I don’t know, it’s really great.
SW: Yeah. Do you remember that very first—was it a long campaign, or was it a homebrew or was it a module?
LA: It was a longer campaign. It was a module. I think it was Keep at the Borderlands..? It was, like, one of the originals that they did.
SW: Wow.
LA: It was, it was a dungeon crawl, which I hadn’t, which suited me fine because I didn’t know what I was doing. [Sandra laughs] And it was, but I slowly learned, you know, people, people create their characters and suddenly, like, you see where strengths lie and where someone can really shine and where someone can really not shine [laughs] at certain locations and even that’s fun.
SW: Yeah.
LA: And you really you learn how to work together with these people who are your friends, but it doesn’t mean that you know how to tell a story together or interact with each other. And you also learn how to be a good collaborator.
SW: Yeah.
LA: Which is also a really important skill to have in many [both laugh] in many ways.
SW: Yeah.
LA: So I, yeah, it was a longer campaign, it was a crawl. I stuck my hands in a lot of things I should not have stuck my hands in.
SW: Oooh.
LA: Yeah, and but it all kind of worked out. [both laugh]
SW: So what, so what level did you start? And what level did you end at? The party, I guess.
LA: Yeah, we started at level one. I want to say we only went until level 5 or 6, I think, because as you know as well, like, the main enemy of Dungeons & Dragons is scheduling.
SW: [laughing] Yes.
LA: So I, I think at a certain point all of our busy schedules were getting in the way and then our Dungeon Master actually ended up moving away. So then, a new game was created with different characters that went different ways. And it, it was wonderful. But yeah, it was a…
SW: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you, do you, have you pretty much stuck with the same group of, of people to play with? Or have you just moved around or grown? And I know, like, it’s, it just depends on people’s schedules and who’s around.
LA: Yeah. It depends on people’s schedules. My first time Dungeon-Mastering was with a group of people, and that went on for quite a few years. We went through Curse of Strahd.
SW: Oh…that was your first time DM-ing?
LA: That was my first time DM-ing. I googled—
SW: You chose Curse of Strahd? [laughs in disbelief]
LA: We’re—no, hear me out. I googled—
SW: [laughing] Okay, okay. This is going to be a good story.
LA: [laughing] It’s not, I’m so sorry. I googled so much. I was like, what is a good module to start with as a new Dungeon Master? And the internet said, you should start with Curse of Strahd. Obviously. It’s the best for beginning Dungeon Masters, and it did not take long for me to realize that [Sandra laughs] that was a collective lie by the internet. That was a terrible choice. I was learning while on fire
SW: [laughing] Lindsey
LA: how to do this.
SW: Oh my lord.
LA: That’s while I was also teaching some players how to play this game that I had recently discovered and love, so it was a poor choice. I can’t recommend it for your first time [Sandra laughs] but it was ultimately very fun. [both crack up] I think…we got through it! [laughs]
SW: Wow, okay. Did it, did anyone die? Did anyone die?
LA: [considering] Did anyone die..? No.
SW: Really?
LA:
Well, I—look. And I started this back then, and I still… It’s a little different now that the 2024 edition has come out because they changed how you build characters. But the problem with 5e, which I think a lot of Dungeon Masters will agree with, Fifth Edition, it’s really easy to kill the lower level characters. It’s like, you’re level 1 or 2, like, I breathe too hard and your, your character, that character is dead. [Sandra laughs] Like, it’s just, the dice are not on your side. So I very much, like, I coddle them in the earlier levels. Just because if you don’t, like, this character that they just spent hours building
SW: Yeah.
LA:
and getting a backstory for and all that, is just gone and they’re like, why am I playing this game? I just did all this work. Now I got to do this again. [Sandra laughs] But that’s not, that’s not [laughing] how you get people to keep going in the game. So, and once they get, once they hit like level 4, I think you can, that’s when I’ll introduce something called a fumble chart where if they roll in a nat, a natural 1 on the dice, then they have to roll a percentage to see like, what happens to them. That’s when you can start getting a little stricter with them. [Sandra laughs] But those early levels in Fifth Edition specifically, those are those are rough on a Dungeon Master because anything kills them. [laughs]
SW: Ohhh [laughs] I’m having a flashback. I’m having a flashback. So I rarely, I’ve only DM’d twice because that’s, I feel a little bit like it’s too much like my work. And so. Yeah. Anyway. So one time I decided to do, I think it was supposed to be like a mini-campaign, and I was trying out Eberron.
LA: Oh, okay. Yeah, it’s a fun, that’s a fun one.
SW: It was interesting. And so I had this whole thing and like, I sent my, I think they were first-level. [laughs] I sent them to the warehouse to find clues, you know, to get to the next step, and I had [laughing] I almost killed them with, I think the monster was a cockatrice. It was like, a guard.
LA: Oh, yeah.
SW: You know, and I was like… Like, in-game, I’m thinking to myself, how did I miscalculate this, like, getting turned to stone thing? Oh, sho-o-ot.
LA: It’s…it’s so easy.
SW: And then I just was like, okay, okay, okay, [laughing] what am I going to do? And it’s like, oh yes! Because the warehouse has, employs cockatrice as their, like, guard dogs, they, they clearly have an antidote handy just in case.
LA: Obviously. Obviously.
SW: So that’s what you find. [both laugh]
LA: ‘Oh shit’ demands that you find easy access to an antidote. [cracks up]
SW: Yeah, exactly. So yeah. So you just, yeah, I just flashed back to that. Oh boy. Okay.
LA: Oh yeah.
SW: Okay. I am so curious. How many players did you have that first time you were DM-ing Curse of Strahd? I still can’t believe you started with that one.
LA: I know, I know. Well, you’ll laugh at this part too. I think I had seven..?
SW: Oh! [laughs] Oh my… [both crack up]
LA: [laughing] I just like, I, I jumped right into the fire. I was like, let’s play a game. It’ll be really hard for me specifically and I’ll just figure out—luckily, I have no idea what I’m doing, but I’ll figure it out. Hopefully. And we’ll go from there. [laughs]
SW: Wow. That’s a big party.
LA: It was a big party. It was a big party. I don’t think I’ve had that big of a party since, in my games. I keep it smaller. In the podcast, there’s now five main characters. But it’s… Seven’s a lot to handle at a table.
SW: No kidding. Oh, look at this natural segue. Podcast, you say? What—
LA: [innocent voice] Podcast? [laughs]
SW: How did you— Okay. How did you get started DM-ing for a podcast?
LA: Okay. So we, this is such a story. Again, I am a television writer by trade. So in 2023, there was a massive strike for writers. And me and two of my very dear friends, Daphne Myles and Lauren Muir, organized the Tabletop D&D Strike Day.
SW: Oh.
LA:
So we had a bunch of people came to help us picket. We had food trucks. We had DMs on each corner doing small, little, like, interactions. We had companies like Dice Envy and Critical Role donate dice for us to give away. And then we were very lucky to have Brennan Lee Mulligan run like, a group, kind of, one-shot at the end of it, and it was incredible. And when it was over, we were exhausted. And then we got really sad because a) we loved working together and b) we were like, we just, we loved playing D&D, we love bringing something like this out. Like, what if we just made it—what if we learned how to make a D&D podcast?
SW: Right.
LA: Because we never had and we’re like, well, we’ve never done a strike day. We’d never done anything like that. Like, what if we just did—you know, I’d never run Strahd before [Sandra laughs] but what if we just run Strahd? If you sense a theme at all…
SW: Yeah, I’m getting a sense of your personal philosophy here, Lindsey.
LA: [laughing] I know.
SW: I don’t know if you intended that… [laughs]
LA:
I don’t think I did, but here we are. So it’s like, so we started talking. We’re like, well, what kind could it be? What could we base it on? And at the time—you’re going to learn a lot about me—at the time, we…the Eras tour was going on and we’re huge, we’re huge Swifties. We’re huge Taylor Swift fans. We were doing livestreams, we were playing Mastermind, we were loving it all. And we were like, how do we tie these two together? And so—
SW: As one does. [cracks up]
LA: [laughing] As one does. How do we make these two things we love kiss? So we came up with the idea to do a podcast based on Taylor Swift songs. So every character, every character was created with a song as their backstory-ish. They’re, they’re inspired by a song.
SW: [laughing] Right.
LA: The entire world was created based on her music. Her lyrics…memes. And then we recruited two of our friends that we had played with before, who we loved and who also loved Taylor. And we were like, let’s learn how to make a podcast and just kind of do it.
SW: Right.
LA: And we did. [laughs] And so we’ve been doing that for a couple years. It is a joy to be able to create something with your friends, which I think you touched on earlier. It’s just, it’s, it is interactive storytelling, and it is—in a world where, you know, as writers, we were on strike and then the business is doing what the business is doing currently. And we were just like, we all just collectively, like, we want to make something and be creative. How do we do that?
SW: Right.
LA: And this podcast became kind of the answer, and it allowed us to create characters and send them into situations and be ridiculous and have fun with friends and all of it, so.
SW: And I know that you already told me, but it has slipped my mind. What is the name of this incredible podcast of yours?
LA: [laughing] Thank you so much. It’s called The Legend of Taylore.
SW: [cracking up] That’s brilliant.
LA: I know, I know, we love it so much.
SW: That is so, that is so creative and like, like quirky in the best possible way.
LA: It’s very quirky.
SW: Yeah. And then like, talk about, you know you, you talked earlier about how restrictions [laughs] can really pump up the creativity. So like, having to choose everything from the world of Taylor Swift as your framing device is so interesting. [laughs]
LA: It’s, it’s been fun. It’s well, probably the most interesting is that the main, all the, all the players based their character on a song, which I highly recommend, by the way [Sandra laughs] in any one’s campaign, just pick a song that you like and just like, make that, make an anthem for your character.
SW: Yeah. [laughing] That’s great.
LA: Highly recommend. But the other thing was, all the NPCs in the world, the main ones also have a song that the players have to try and guess.
SW: Ooooooh.
LA:
So they don’t know. So that was a terrible idea on my part [Sandra cracks up] because now I have to make sure that I’m dropping hints about not only what these characters’ songs are, but you would know, even like, running the games you have, dropping hints about what they’re supposed to do next. [Sandra laughs] I have been in sessions where I’m like, this was a terrible idea. [laughing] Like, why did we do this? I have so many hints to try and drop. [laughs]
SW: I can tell you like your life really easy.
LA: Yep!
SW: Clearly.
LA: Clearly.
SW: Yeah.
LA: [laughing] Or I just don’t think things through. Like, this will be fine!
SW: So then. Okay, so you said you started, a few years ago. So are you on a, are you, do you have a new campaign running right now on the podcast? Is it the same? [laughs]
LA: No. It is the same campaign. We’re running it in seasons. So we’re in the middle of season two right now. We did season one to kind of like prove that we could do it.
SW: Yeah.
LA: Because again, like we had never edited anything before. We hadn’t had to record anything. We record on my kitchen table and it’s like, where did the blankets go? I call it swaddling them so that we don’t echo. Like, are the mics working? Is the software? How do we do this? Like, it’s been—so season one was intended to see if we could.
SW: Yeah.
LA: And we did. I’m sure you [laughing] had a similar path with your podcast. Let’s see if we can.
SW: [laughing] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So how many episodes in season one for you?
LA: Season one was 21 episodes.
SW: Yeah. And are they the same length or varying in length?
LA: We usually try and keep it to an hour. We’re all, we try to be respectful of both our time and the listeners’ time. [both laugh] I know, and I know campaigns and sessions and all of that run very long, and it’s a joy to play them and all of that. But sometimes, like, we’re commuting and that’s the only time we get to listen. So we try to keep it shorter. And, so for the most part, they are only an hour long.
SW: Okay. So I know that you like challenges. So this question may be a challenge for you. Could you just [laughs] in the most generalized way, give an overview of what has happened so far in your campaign?
LA: Yeah, sure. Let’s try it.
SW: Yes! Yes!
LA:
I’m unprepped. So our, the podcast starts in the aftermath of a war. We have two factions that have been fighting for a century. The northern Diamond Sky Kingdom is anti-magic. They’re very mechanical. They’re very, they’re led by the Graces. King Grace and his Queen Emma Grace and their son, Maxim Grace. And they’ve been at war with the Archers, who are in Forever Winter, down south. They’re the more magical people. And they’ve declared peace. And we start with, they have actually been touring with the Archer Princess, Rebecca Archer, who is a bard
SW: [laughing] Uh-huh.
LA: and she is about to put on a show at the Neutral Zone—stay with me—for a peace concert.
SW: [laughing] Of course.
LA: And then it, our, our heroes arrive because they’re there for the concert for various reasons. And then it all kind of goes awry when there is—spoiler alert—an assassination.
SW: [exaggerated] Oh, no.
LA: Yes. So it looks like [both laugh] it looks like the war is starting all over again. Our heroes are trying to figure out, Wait. What happened? How could this have happened? Who did this? while also looking into past relationships, looking into mysteries, and their own families, or mysteries just in the world around them. And so they’ve been trying to figure out who killed this person and why.
SW: Yeah.
LA: And that’s really been the throughline for, for most of the, for most of the story is, who did this and why they did it. They, as D&D campaigns do, they go off the rails sometimes [both laugh] and you know, you go with it because, because it’s fun. [both laugh]
SW: Yeah.
LA: And you hope everyone enjoys listening. But that is the mystery of the assassination. Who’s behind it? What is Diamond Sky really doing? Are they trying to start a war again? What is the plan here? And it’s really been a lot of political intrigue, as well as mystery and some romance and it’s been, yeah.
SW: Yeah.
LA: It’s big.
SW: Fun! So you as the DM, like, just in general, how much do you prep? How long do you prep before each session?
LA: It’s different for every session
SW: Yeah, of course.
LA: and I think and, and you’ll, like all DMs, will find this. So sometimes we get to a point where I need them, like, this thing needs to happen.
SW: Yeah.
LA: And so I will set up 5 or 6 different scenarios depending on who does what, to make sure this one thing happens so that they can. Because even if you hint at it, sometimes they still don’t see it. So you have to have failsafes. So in those cases when I absolutely need things to happen, there is a lot of prep. There, like, I have scenarios, I have characters created, characters that I think are going to be around for a while. I’ll have to have songs.
SW: Yep. [laughs]
LA: I have to name them all. If you’ve ever had to name characters, it’s the bane of my existence.
SW: [laughing] Uh-huh.
LA: And so it gets tricky. And then there are other times when, say, they’ve wrapped up a storyline or they wrapped up a relation—a scenario, relationship, whatever it is where I’m like, they could go anywhere.
SW: Right.
LA: And your job as the DM is obviously to provide a story, but it’s also to give them roads to walk. Like, if they want to go and do something wild and crazy, I kind of want to go and do something wild and crazy with them.
SW: Yeah.
LA: So sometimes it’s, the prep is, hey, try and end at this point.
SW: Yeah. [laughing]
LA: And that’s the only prep I got.
SW: Right.
LA: Because I don’t know what they’re going to do.
SW: Right.
LA: At some point this person will show up. That’s my prep and I, because I don’t know what they’re going to do. And I’ve just kind of got to roll with it.
SW: Yeah.
LA: And I’ve accepted that. [laughs]
SW: [laughing] I mean, I think you have to for your own mental health. You know? I don’t think anyone enjoys, oh, like endless railroading. Like, no one likes that, right?
LA: No. Sometimes you’re, sometimes you’re like, look, you’ve got to go save this wizard. You’ve got to go save this wizard. And they’re like, you know what? I saw a dog. [Sandra cracks up] Let’s go follow the dog.
SW: Yeah.
LA: Well, now this dog’s got to have a story. Let’s figure it out. Let’s go. [both crack up] That wizard can wait. You’re right. He’s boring. Like, let’s go see what this dog is up to. [laughs]
SW: Excellent. Yeah. Always follow the dog, folks. Always follow the dog. [laughs]
LA: You never know.
SW: Yeah. So then, like, do you play with, you know, figures or figurines? Or do you do mostly theatre of the mind? Like, what do you do?
LA: I’m, I personally am a big fan of playing with figurines, playing with maps. The joy of it is that you can get into the nitty gritty of the combat rules, which I know is not for everybody. [Sandra laughs, it might be said, knowingly] But again, in a world where sometimes restrictions bring out really beautiful story…
SW: Right.
LA: I like having maps and saying, oh, you can’t do that because there’s a table in the way. Oh, you’re behind a tree, though. Oh, like, he, like, you’re outside of 30ft and we can see it. And then the players, because they’re brilliant, wonderful, will come up with cockamamie things to do, and it’s fantastic.
SW: Yeah.
LA: You know, and the challenge of it is really wonderful. So I, that’s why I enjoy, I also enjoy theater of the mind, but I enjoy it when I play with characters, I’m like, this is what it looks like.
SW: Yeah.
LA: Tell me what you want to do and let’s try it.
SW: Yeah.
LA: Yeah.
SW: Now do your players enjoy that? That’s [laughs] that’s the other question.
LA: I think for the most part, the players, it depends on what they’re trying to do. They would obviously just like a yes every time they ask to do something.
SW: [laughing] Of course. Yeah.
LA: And there’s a lot of arguing, like, no Lindsey, I’m pretty sure it would work if you’d just like, like I’m pretty sure I would have advantage on that, all of it. So obviously they would like everything to work, but it’s, but they do, I think, get into how fun it is to figure out solutions.
SW: Yeah. Okay. Do you still play as a player or do you only exclusively DM now?
LA: No, I have two..? I have three games where I am a player.
SW: Oh.
LA: And I love all three of them.
SW: Yeah.
LA: For different reasons. Because I think especially when you DM for a while, you’re like, well, I could be this character. Like, I can tell you this, I can whatever. And it’s nice to kind of let go of the control of the story, and just be, and just be someone who gets to be in the story.
SW: Yeah.
LA: So I’m, yeah, I’m very blessed with very good DMs who let me play as a player and, and also, like, a lot of times that’s how you learn to be a better DM, is by being a player and seeing how other DMs handle situations.
SW: Yeah.
LA: Or their ideas on different interactions and counters. So, yeah.
SW: Okay, that’s the perfect opportunity for me again to just like, say how amazing my husband is as a DM
LA: Yes! Brag!
SW: because he is like, he could just roll with anything, anything. And he just lets the players do their thing, you know? And he always seems to know, like, when the restrictions are the best time to drop them on you, to make everything better. So, Kevin, you are amazing. Everyone, you should know this. My husband is a fantastic DM.
LA: Ye-e-es.
SW: Okay, so I want to—
LA: Kevin!
SW: [laughs] I want to hear about your three characters that you’re playing, Lindsey.
LA: Okay, okay. So in one campaign, I am an Aasimar Bard.
SW: Okay.
LA: With a tragic backstory, if you can believe it.
SW: Love it. Of course. [laughs] I’m shocked, actually, shocked.
LA: She… Aasimars are descended from Celestials and angels and all of that. So she came from a family that basically had a demon that had possessed one of them years and years ago. And every time one of them, one of the family members passed, the demon would then be passed down to the next child. So she carried a demon, her family demon, for a very long time. And killed the parents, it’s fine. So.
SW: Oh yeah. I’m sure it was fine. I’m sure they’re fine.
LA:
They’re fine. But what’s interesting is in the campaign, we discovered one of the other players was a juvenile who wasn’t allowed to leave the police station where we were arrested until [laughs] he had a guardian. So she ended up adopting this juvenile. And then she was killed by a wizard for a short amount of time. And he became possessed by the demon for a little bit, which is a thing who knew could happen? Because she didn’t have a child when I created her, but it was just a source of the interactive storytelling, so it was really cool. So that’s one. The other one—
SW: Wait, wait. So she’s been, she’s been resurrected? Or..?
LA: She was resurrected. Her [laughs] her and a few of the other characters were killed by this wizard. [Sandra laughs] And then the characters who were still alive worked and found someone to help resurrect us. And so we carry the scars from it, but…
SW: Of course.
LA: They did manage to bring us back. And since then, her son has died again, and we had to go on a whole thing. It’s a, she’s a terrible mother, if you think about it too hard. [both laugh] Just bringing this kid is dangerous.
SW: She’s just doing her best.
LA: She’s doing her best. So we had to go on a whole thing to get him back alive as well. Again.
SW: Yeah. Well, she would have been a terrible mother if she didn’t. So, there.
LA: It’s true. There you go. There you go. Yeah. [both crack up] Poor boy.
SW: Oh boy. Okay.
LA: Okay. Probably my highest level character I’ve ever played is a Water Genasi Cleric.
SW: Oh, wow. Okay.
LA: Yeah. Named Briony. And I had never, and she is—not a tragic backstory. She is from a little island. Where they all are Clerics and her whole family’s Clerics, and they all worship the same god. And she is on her rumspringa [rite of passage, as in some Mennonite and Amish communities] when she meets the other players. So she is basically on her break from her, from her charge, doing adventures. And when we wrap this campaign, she will go back to her island and serve there.
SW: Ohh. Okay.
LA: But she is very friendly. She has a gambling addiction…
SW: Oh dear. [laughing]
LA: …as granted by her god, the god of gambling. And she’s a delight.
SW: Yeah.
LA: She’s been very fun.
SW: And what level? Because you said highest. She’s your highest level.
LA: She’s level 20.
SW: Oh, wow.
LA: We’ve been playing—yeah, that was a campaign that started online 2020. And we played almost every single week for, since. So. And he does it—and again, this is how I like playing with other DMs, you can learn a lot—he does, he would level us up by how many sessions we played.
SW: Okay.
LA: So he had a math equation that would work out. And since we had all, for the most part, played almost every single week for what, six years now, we’re up there. So yeah, it’s crazy.
SW: Wow.
LA: It’s [laughs] crazy. So she’s about to—he’s gearing up for a big thing, but she is about to retire back to her island. So. [laughs]
SW: Yeah. Wow. But then what is she going to do in her island? She’s, like, 20th level adventurer, and she goes back to do…what?
LA: Well, her big dream is to start [chuckles] Again, she worships a god of gambling. She wants to start riverboat casinos. [Sandra laughs] So, like—
SW: As one does.
LA: leave the island, as one does, and kind of spread the word of her god [laughs]
SW: That’s brilliant.
LA: [laughing] through the world. And she’ll just manage them from the island.
SW: I love it. That’s brilliant.
LA: That’s her, that’s her retirement plan. I’ve made that very clear.
SW: That’s great. [laughs]
LA: So if she, if she makes it, that’s, she’ll have a fleet of riverboat casinos. [laughs]
SW: [laughing] I love it. Oh, that’s so brilliant. Okay. Okay. We have one more character. Who is this?
LA: Last character is new to me. She is a Rogue Fairy. We’re playing a, I think it’s called…Enter the Fey Wild. Is that what it is..?
SW: Maybe.
LA: Yeah.
SW: I haven’t played a lot of modules. We play, we play a lot of homebrews.
LA: You do a lot of homebrews. That’s so much work for Kevin, oh my gosh.
SW: Well, it’s actually, to be honest, we stopped playing D&D because, like, the best DM in the family is, is actually our youngest. [laughs]
LA: Yep. I was waiting for it. [laughing] I was like, when do the kids start taking over?
SW: Who is now 19 and, and they have been like, they’re, they’re just going like gangbusters. They’re such a good game master because… They have declared that they’re no longer interested in D&D, no longer interested in 5e.
LA: They moved on to other?
SW: They’ve moved on.
LA: To other ttrpgs or..?
SW: Uh-huh.
LA: Okay, great. Yeah.
SW: So we actually as a family, we don’t play D&D much at all. We might go back to finish one campaign that our older daughter was running, and we kind of just fell by the wayside because life. But the youngest one introduced us to this new, new-to-us ttrpg called CAIN, C-A-I-N, which is very dark.
LA: Yeah, I’m unfamiliar with this one.
SW: Very dark.
LA: Tell me all about it.
SW: I don’t know. We love it. It’s just, like, it’s creepy. It’s body horror. It’s like, it just feels like everything’s doomed. But you’re just going to do your best anyway. Like, it’s so fun. It’s so fun. So, anyway, when… I totally lost my point. What were you saying? You said new to you. [laughing] I have no idea what I was saying…
LA: You said you, you said you guys did mostly homebrew. And I just said, that’s so much work.
SW: That’s right. Because our kids prefer to homebrew their own little campaigns. Thank you for reminding me what the heck I was trying to say.
LA: That’s awesome.
SW: Yeah, because they preferred—so we’re like, okay, because we’ve tried some duds. Like, I don’t know, friends out there, I would just stay clear of Hoard of the Dragon Queen. Like, just don’t bother.
LA: Yeah.
SW: That one is just…
LA: It’s fair. I mean, it’s very classic and basic. It’s very…
SW: You are being so generous. [laughs]
LA: Well, here’s the thing. Everyone, everyone has a place to start, right? And so—
SW: Okay, as a family—
LA: —it’s not…the best one. [laughs]
SW: we started with Phandelver.
LA: Okay. That’s a great place to start.
SW: Right? That’s a great one to start with, I would say.
LA: That is. But speaking of constantly dying at lower levels. [Sandra cracks up] Like, come on. Phandelver comes for you. I was, I think I was in that mansion and I was like, how has anyone survived this? [both laugh]
SW: Yeah, I think that took a lot from Kevin who DM’d that one for us, you know, to make sure that, you know, no one really died.
LA: Yeah, yeah.
SW: You know.
LA: That’s good.
SW: Yeah. But the last huge campaign we did as a family, we played for four years. And I think by the time we ended, we were at, like, 18th level maybe. But it was, oh, gosh… Out of the Abyss.
LA: Oh, how was that? I haven’t played that one.
SW: Well, he had to, he had to jury-rig some parts because some of the parts were like, that doesn’t… So he just like, he just did his magic anyway. And so we had a ton of fun.
LA: Yeah, yeah.
SW: In the end, when we, we got to this point, and sometimes this happens with long campaigns, I think. And I’m probably guessing you’ve experienced this as well, maybe. You can sometimes get into a rut where it’s just like, what are we doing? Why are we here? What are we doing this for?
LA: Yeah.
SW: Like, when you’re following a module. Because let’s be honest, the modules aren’t all, you know, A-game all the time. And sometimes there’re doldrums. And you’re like, what is the point of this part? Why are we here? So.
LA: Yeah.
SW: Yeah, we got into a few of those with Abyss, and then Kevin just did his magic and…
LA: Figured it out?
SW: He just figured it out.
LA: [laughing] Hooked you back in!
SW: Yeah, exactly. Redirected us, and we actually have—I made t-shirts for us [laughs] that say—
LA; Awww.
SW: you know, Out of the Abyss. And it says on there, Hope you have diamonds. [Lindsey laughs] Because at one point, at one point, my gosh, I can’t remember how old she was… The older daughter was much younger, and [laughs] my Rogue character was, you know, battling something. And she was like, Uh, I think I have to fireball. So, and I was in, you know, my Rogue was in the, the area of effect. [laughs] And so she looked at me. Like, she looked at me, this adorable child of mine, and said, shrug, “Hope you have diamonds.” And she rolled. [laughs]
LA: [cracks up] To resurrect yourself?
SW: [laughing] Yes.
LA: Oh my God.
SW: Yes.
LA: [laughing] Adorable.
SW: God it was— And like, the… We just cracked up.
LA: Yeah, of course.
SW: Like, we just died laughing so hard. I mean, we did have a Cleric, which is why the diamond was—
LA: Yeah, of course.
SW: —handy. But, yeah. I mean, those are the best moments, right? [laughs]
LA: Those are the best, those are the best moments. They’re the ones you talk about. They’re the ones you remember. We had in the one campaign with my dear, dear Bard. Early on, we were playing with this group and we were getting, we came upon a community that was getting attacked—like, something was killing cows.
SW: Yeah.
LA: And so of course, we’re like, logically, we’re like, well, we got a stake out, you know, the field, whatever. And then—there’s always one. And you want this player in your campaign. We had our beloved Paladin go, Well, should we dress like cows?
SW: [cracks up] Yes. Yes!
LA: And the warlock next to me goes well. And I’m like, hold on. [Sandra cracks up] He goes, you’re right, you’re right. We should dress like cows. [cracks up] Then we spent the night making cow costumes. And did more cows die while we did that? Yes. But we eventually stopped the bad ones. But it’s like, you need the… Sometimes you gotta throw a fireball and just hope you have diamonds. You know? Sometimes you just do the ridiculous thing and see how it goes.
SW: So you just—wait a second. You dressed like cows to do a steak out?
LA: A-a-a-a-h. You know it. [both crack up]
SW: Sorry not sorry, folks. [both laugh]
LA: Yeah.
SW: Anyway, so I do feel compelled to say I was, I was talking about modules and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So…
LA: Yeah.
SW: I just don’t want, I just want people to understand I am not bad-mouthing modules, or homebrew over modules. Like, whatever your speed is, you just go, right? Have fun with it, discover what you like, what you don’t like, discover how to [sighs] dress like cows, you know, if that’s what you need.
LA: Dress like cows. I have had a wonderful time with modules and I’ve played quite a few of them. They’re really, they’re really helpful, especially when you’re…not Strahd. [Sandra laughs] But when you’re first starting out, you’re trying to figure out, what is this thing? How do I play this game? Like, what do I have to tell the players? Like, what’s important? What’s not important? What, how are maps important? Like, modules are really helpful examples of how you can do that.
SW: Yeah.
LA: But also sometimes with modules, what I struggle with is I can’t keep all the names in my head. I can’t keep their motivations in my—like, I’m like, who is this guy? I’m flipping through it. [Sandra laughs] So, a lot of times, like, homebrew can be more helpful if you have goldfish brain like me. And I’m just like, I don’t know who this guy is. He wants you to go save this wizard. So it’s, it’s really just, like, especially for new players, it’s really just, what are you comfortable with trying out first?
SW: Yeah.
LA: But maybe skip Strahd.
SW: Maybe.
LA: Just maybe start somewhere else. Which is not—like, I will say, it’s fun to play.
SW: Yeah. [cracks up]
LA: But [laughing] it doesn’t… Much like the problem you were talking about earlier with Out of the Abyss, sometimes it leads you places, but for no reason. You don’t know why you’re there.
SW: Yeah
LA: And then you’re just stuck there. And as a new DM, you’re like, oh, I didn’t realize when I got here we’d be stuck here. I didn’t realize.
SW: Right.
LA: I didn’t realize this because I’m new, I don’t, you know, I’m learning, I don’t know.
SW: Yeah.
LA: So you got to figure it out quick, so that everyone was like, It’s like a sandbox. And I didn’t know what that meant. I was like, Cool! [Sandra laughs] And then I learned sandbox meant, no, you have to figure out why they’re going there.
SW: Yeah. [laughing]
LA: On your own. That’s for you. We don’t do that. That’s you. I’m like, oh, well, now I know, but it’s fun.
SW: Yeah. Okay, so as we kind of, I know we could go on and on, but I know that—
LA: I could talk about D&D forever. [laughs]
SW: Exactly. But I know that you have, like, dinner waiting for you, so. [laughs]
LA: Sure.
SW: Okay. So, if someone is just starting now and they’re going to start with D&D Fifth Edition, 5e, do you have a module that you would recommend? That you say would be a great beginner module to play? And/or DM, if it’s different?
LA:
My recommendation for new players is to, if one of your friends doesn’t want to try being DM at first, is to try and find a game store near you where they will be running one-shots. Because when you have no idea what this game is or how to build a character or what, like, certain things sometimes it’s just… To me, I think it eases your mind as a newbie that someone’s already there. They’ve already played it. They can hand you a character sheet if you want and then you play a one-shot, get your bearings, and then figure out where you want to go from there.
SW: Yeah.
LA:
And even then I would say, then you go to DMs Guild and you look for one-shots to run there. There’s a one-shot that’s highly recommended for beginners all the time. It’s called Wild Sheep Chase. [Sandra laughs] And it’s just a one-shot, and you’re helping a sheep. And it’s so, it’s just, until you really figure out for yourself what the game is and what you like about playing the game. So there’s a lot of ways to play D&D, you know. You can get super “rules lawyer.” You can do theater of the mind. You can do—there’s hundreds of ways to play it until you get a sense of what you like about it. For me, it’s like, well try one-shots. You know, go to Start Playing dot com and do some online ones to see if you like it. Go to your game shop, if you have one that does D&D nights, and try a one-shot there. Let someone make your character at first if you want, just so you can focus on what’s happening. [both chuckle] For me, it’s really just, whatever gets you in there playing is the way to do it. So try that, but make it easy on yourself.
SW: Yeah.
LA: Don’t run Strahd.
SW: Yeah. I mean, maybe not right away. Maybe not right away.
LA: Not right away, but wait a minute. Do a few other things first and then you can run Strahd, yeah.
SW: Yeah. So I do feel, you know, in this moment where we are in history, I do feel it’s important to say, some of the origins of Dungeons & Dragons—
LA: Yep.
SW: —are problematic. It’s absolutely true. And at the same time, we as human beings, we can take things that started problematically or that were created by problematic people, by people who were bigoted, prejudiced, etc.—sexist, hello, misogynist—
LA: Mm-hm.
SW: We can take those tools and make the games our own. So that’s what I would recommend. If you are new to this and you start reading up about how it started, who started it—
LA: [sighs] Yeah
SW:
—and even, even the company that owns it now and where they’re going, what they’re doing, it’s not great. We’re not going to hide that. And at the same time, this game format, this play format, interactive storytelling, rolling dice, creating characters, etc. etc., this can be such a source of joy for so many people, clearly including Lindsey. And it has for me as well, and my family. So we, like, make it work for you is really what I’m trying to say here. And also, if you don’t want to truck with it because of the problematic elements, that’s totally okay. too. You know, everyone’s got their own speed. So, there’s my little spiel. [laughing]
LA: Agree, and beautifully said. [laughs]
SW: Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Lindsey. I know that we could go on and on and on, but we’re going to start wrapping up. And what I’m going to do first is our Small Joys segment. So Lindsey Allen [both laugh] what do you, what is something that you have or that you do, that lifts your spirits when you need a little boost?
LA: So besides D&D, because I think we’ve covered that, I’m a big gamer. And I, when I think about this question as a person who also has anxiety, I think of also, what can help me regulate a lot.
SW: Yeah
LA:
What can help me get there? And so the two things I do a lot are, I’ll go for a walk on a little path outside. I will get outside, I will play music or listen to a book, and I will just walk into, and get whatever thoughts or worry out of the head. And/or, I will sit down and play the dumbest video games possibly in existence, and they all involve some sort of farming [Sandra laughs] or cow care or, I don’t know, I guess fishing. I actually secretly hate all fishing games, but like, they, they will be a little mindless, they will be a little—and it’s all just to, like, help get myself back to like, everything’s fine. You are regulated and here you are able to experience the situation In a thoughtful way. [laughs softly]
SW: Yeah, yeah. No, that’s so important, right? To come up with things that work for us. I’m so glad you have that and I, I second the walks. [laughs] Always a good idea.
LA: It’s one of the infuriating things when they’re always like, well, light exercise. And I’m like, you do light exercise, you don’t know. And then you go for a walk and you’re like, dang it, those jerks were right. I’ll never tell them that. But dang it. [laughs]
SW: [laughs] Yeah, okay, I, I do appreciate that. Also the dang it, they were right.
LA: Yeah.
SW: Okay. Yeah. Okay. So we are now, listeners and friends of the podcast, you know where we’re going. My world famous Speed Round. So, Lindsey, this is where I ask you silly questions and you just answer off the top of your head. There are no stakes. It’s not just low stakes, it’s zero stakes. [laughs]
LA: Zero stake, okay.
SW: Zero stakes, zero judgments. Just fun.
LA: Okay.
SW: Okay, are you ready?
LA: Do it. I’m so, I’m nervous and ready. Let’s go.
SW: Awesome. Okay, so, this season, season two, we are doing favourites. So I’m going to ask you, give you categories, and you can either give me your one favorite or a favorite because sometimes it’s hard to choose just one. Okay, so here we go. We’re going to start with favourite way or ways to eat potatoes.
LA: Oh God. French fries. French fries. Tater tots. Waffle fries. Any sort of fry, really.
SW: Okay.
LA: I enjoy a good hash brown. Like, I’m a big potato fan. [Sandra cracks up] You can put potatoes in anything, and I’ll eat it. Potatoes are a gift to this world. [chuckles]
SW: I love it. I love this answer. When you say hash browns, do you mean shredded hash browns?
LA: Yes. Hash browns are the shredded ones. The home fries are cubed and they’re deep fried. I worked in a diner for five and a half years. I will die on this hill. [laughs]
SW: Yes, you heard it from the expert, friends. You heard it from the expert. All righty. So what is your favourite, or areyour favorite pizza toppings?
LA: Okay, so I, I have a complicated relationship with pizza, but I will say I’m a, I’m a cheese. I’m a peppers—like, bell peppers. I’ll do chicken or sausage. And I’ll do a spinach. I usually do a white pizza because I’m not a red sauce fan at all. That’s where the complicated relationship comes in.
SW: We respect that.
LA: Yeah. [Sandra laughs] So it’s usually some variation of white pizza.
SW: Okay. Great.
LA: Yeah. [both laugh]
SW: Okay. What is your favourite comfy outfit when you’re just shlepping around at home?
LA: I have, if you can imagine, I have a number of Taylor Swift t-shirts that I will wear with sweatpants. [laughs]
SW: Of course!
LA; With slippers.
SW: As one does! As one does. Absolutely.
LA: [laughing] Yes. [both crack up] So that tends to be go-to outfit at home.
SW: Yeah. Love it. Of course. Of course, I should have guessed. Should have guessed. Okay. What is your favourite holiday?
LA: [long pause] This one’s also complicated because as the December baby, I have a rivalry with Christmas, no matter what.
SW: Right, right.
LA: But it, but it is probably my favorite holiday. Even though it’s, it’s a rivalry, I would say.
SW: Yeah. [both laugh] It seems very generous of you. That was very generous of you.
LA: Thank you, thank you. Tell Christmas that. [both crack up]
SW: Yeah. Okay. Next is, what is your favourite tree? Or, flower, if you don’t have a favourite tree. Or both.
LA: I do not have a favorite tree. I grew up in Arizona, so it’s mostly cactus. Flower is tulip. I like a good tulip.
SW: Yeah. Do you have a favourite color of tulip?
LA: My favorite color in general is pink. So if something’s pink, it’s going to be my favorite of that, of whatever that thing is.
SW: That’s right, that’s right. That’s awesome. [both laugh] Okay. Next is what is your favourite kind of movie or TV series or show to wind down with?
LA: So I am one of those people who will rewatch the same thing over and over and over.
SW: Yeah.
LA: I just will. So my list tends to be Brooklyn Nine-Nine, America’s Next Top model, Project Runway.
SW: Wow.
LA: And then I, I do tend to love a procedural, so I’m huge on 911s. I’m here for The Rookie. Big fans. Big fans. I like, I like having fun with TV. And for movies, I tend to love horror movies, so I don’t know how that fits in.
SW: [laughing] Really?
LA: Yeah. [laughs]
SW: Wow.
LA: I love horror. Which is, which is a problem because my roommate does not like horror, is not a horror movie watcher.
SW: Oh, okay. So, like, are you the type of person who loves horror but is not frightened by it? Or you are frightened and that’s what you love?
LA: I tend to not be frightened by it, but horror is also where, especially now, like, you’re seeing the most, the most original storytelling coming out.
SW: Yeah.
LA: So it’s lovely to see, like, Sinners and Obsession and all of those coming out and just really, really telling thoughtful stories and engaging audiences. So I really just, like, horror is where you’re going to find a lot of creative storytelling right now, as far as I’m concerned.
SW: Okay. All right. Favourite kind of chocolate?
LA: Dark. Easy.
SW: Easy. [laughs]
LA: The darker, the better.
SW: Okay, then this is maybe a hard one. Especially because you’re a writer. Remember I said a favourite? You don’t have to have, just choose one. Favourite word.
LA: Favorite word? Unfortunately, and I’m sure you know this as well as a writer, as you’re editing, you discover what your favorite word is because you have to cut it [Sandra laughs] a thousand times because you use it so much. So unfortunately, my favorite word is the word “just.” [Sandra cracks up] I’m just saying. I’m just going to go over there. I’ll just see you later. I’m just going to say. I use it so much, it drives me insane. And I’ve just had to accept that about myself.
SW: Okay.
LA: That that’s what comes out when I type dialog in the first draft, and then I have to go through and cut them. [laughs]
SW: [laughing] Yeah, yeah. I may or may not know what you mean with that particular word.
LA: [laughing] Uh-huh. Is it “just” or do you have a different word?
SW: It’s probably “just.” [both laugh]
LA: It sneaks up on, you know.
SW: I don’t know, I don’t know why…
LA: Like, is this how I talk? Do I talk like this? Do I say that word a lot? Is that why it’s coming out?
SW: Oh, okay. So here’s a bonus. Favourite word that’s like…that you actually, actually like?
LA: That I actually like…
SW: Yeah.
LA: I don’t know that I have one…to be honest.
SW: Yeah.
LA: I will say, as far as vocabulary and writing and all of that, I tend to stay with, the simplest explanation is the best, instead of the, the fancy vocab words.
SW: Yeah.
LA: Which is probably why I use the word “just” so many times, if you think about it.
SW: It’s just right. [laughs]
LA: It’s just right. It always just fits. [laughs] But yeah, I don’t, I don’t think I have one word that I use. I have phrases.
SW: Oh, yeah? Well, hit me. Hit me with a phrase.
LA: A phrase I get questioned about a lot in scripts is “hell for leather.”
SW: Oh!
LA: Like, he’s running hell for leather.
SW: Yeah.
LA: I get a lot of questions about it.
SW: See, I thought it was hell-bent for leather.
LA: Oh, interesting. Okay, I think, I think that’s a variation, to be honest.
SW: Yeah.
LA: But, yeah, I’ll do “hell for leather” a lot. I used…what was one..? I used some word for food that was like “vittlins,” but it wasn’t “vittlins.” It was something that, like, I, I have used several times in the past just talking.
SW: Right.
LA: And I had people like, what is this word? [Sandra laughs] I can’t remember what it was now though. I’m sure, I’m sure I’ll say it again tomorrow and be like, that was the word, but I can’t think of what it was.
SW: Yeah, yeah.
LA: Some synonym for food that everyone was like, what are you talking about? [laughs]
SW: Okay. Like, “vittles”?
LA: Yeah. Might have been “vittles.”
SW: Okay, so that is—that’s such an interesting word, because I only learned in the last few years how that word is actually spelled. So when you spell it, it looks like vic-tuals. But you pronounce it…
LA: Oh-h-h?
SW: …you pronounce it “vittles.”
LA: Oh, I have been spelling it very incorrectly, don’t know what to tell ya.
SW: But I’m sure you could spell it both ways, because, you know, that’s how English works, right?
LA: Yeah, probably now, right?
SW: Yeah.
LA: You do it enough times, it becomes right. [both laugh]
SW: Exactly, right?
LA: [laughing] I had no idea until this moment.
SW: [laughing] Before we end up being an etymological podcast—
LA: I know.
SW: we should probably wrap it up.
LA: Okay.
SW: But thank you so much, Lindsey. This has been so joyous. Which is exactly what I’m looking for. I hope you’ve had fun, too.
LA: I have had a blast. Thank you so much for having me. This has been so fun.
SW: Yeah. So, friends, I will, of course, do my best to get all those links in the show notes. Well, I’ll try. I’ll try and list the different modules we talked about, etc., etc., and the different websites. So you can do a little research, waste a little time if you want.
LA: Heck, yeah. Heck, yeah.
SW: Okay. So thank you again, Lindsey, for joining us.
LA: Thank you for having me. It’s been a joy.
SW:
Yay! And thank you, lovelies, as always for being here. And you know, we will meet up again soon. And in the meantime, of course, create joy for yourself and others however works for you because We Contain Multitudes. Oh! and of course, I just wanted to shout out again Romancing the Vote 2026. This is how Lindsey and I connected. And I also realized that in the last episode, when we talked with Norah, I may have given the impression that Bree Bridges and Courtney Milan are coauthors, and so I just wanted to clear that up. The pen name Kit Rocha is actually Bree Bridges and her best, ride-or-die, friend, Donna Herren. That’s Kit Rocha. Courtney Milan is, is her own author. So in case anyone was confused, I just felt the need to clear that up. So. There you have it. But as always, we do contain multitudes and we’ll see you again.
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SW: We Contain Multitudes is on The Incomparable network of smart and funny pop culture podcasts where members can access exclusive podcasts and a wonderful community. Find out more at theincomparable.com.
Special thanks, as always, to Erika Ensign, our editrix extraordinaire of Castria Communications. Award-winning excellence in podcast production and media solutions. Check them out at wearecastria.com.
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SHOW NOTES:
Lindsey’s IMDB
Dungeons & Dragons
The Legend of Tay-lore podcast
Curse of Strahd module
Hoard of the Dragon Queen module
Lost Mines of Phandelver module
Learn about Dragonborn, Aasimar, Genasi (and more) via D&D Beyond
Dungeon Masters Guild
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