I had the pleasure and privilege this past July of donating items for the Romancing the Vote auction, 2026 edition. To my utter surprise, I had two lovely people win spots on the show!
The first of our brave auction winners is Norah Woodsey, an author based in Brooklyn, NY. Norah and I had a really fun chat about something I know absolutely zip about, so that was a special bonus for me. As any listeners of the podcast will surely know: I love learning new things!
As usual, this transcript reflects as faithfully as possible the content and tone of our conversation, with some thoughtful editing to make sure things read smoothly.
Show notes are included after this transcript. Find this episode on The Incomparable.
[jazzy jumpin’ trumpet music]
Sandra Wong:
Hello and welcome. This is We Contain Multitudes, the casual interview show with our favorite people, famous and accomplished guests who share the geek-outs, hobbies, and interests which they might not necessarily be known for. It is I, your host, Sandra Wong. And today I have the pleasure of being joined, by way of Romancing the Vote 2026, Norah Woodsey. Hi, Norah.
Norah Woodsey: Hello.
SW: [laughing] As I’ve warned Norah, friends of the podcast, instead of me writing a little bio, I wanted to give her the chance to share a little bit about herself for you all. So here you go, Norah. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself?
NW: Yeah, I’m a science fiction author. I’ve written six books now, and they range from, you know, a hard science fiction book to, you know, a speculative romance, which was an interesting, yeah, little experiment. I, I used to work in tech, and so I use a lot of that in my books. And then I also have a degree in History of Science.
SW: Oh.
NW: So I sort of combine all that and try and—
SW: That’s so cool! So was the first sci fi book you wrote—okay, tell us the title of it.
NW: That was LIFELESS.
SW: And was that the hard, the hard sci fi?
NW: No, that was mostly, that was using my History of Science degree. I actually wrote the book while I was in college. And so I got to use papers I was using for school to inform the narrative, yeah.
SW: Yeah. How did you [laughs] how did you enjoy writing that first novel? Some people love it, some people hate it. [laughs] It doesn’t matter because they still do it, but.
NW:
Yeah, I, I enjoyed it, but I never wanted to publish it. And so it’s funny, I, the other books, I feel like I wrote them as products, I wrote them for people to read. I really thought about the reader, the whole process. But the first one was really for me. And so I think of it more like, as a completioner’s book. You know, if someone wants to read all of my books, they can go back and read that one. And it’s a little rough around the edges and…
SW: Right
NW: you know, I didn’t really know what I was doing yet, but…that book is available.
SW: [laughing] Yeah. We I, I would just, I’m going to go out on a limb maybe and say, I don’t think many of us know what we’re doing with that first book. Right? That’s how we learn what we’re doing.
NW: Yes. It’s like…tuition, actually. [both laugh]
SW: That’s a cool way to think about it. Yeah. Okay. So I do know we’re not going to talk about books or science fiction or history of science, although history of science, I’m fascinated by that. So anyway, I’ll set that aside. What would you like to talk with us about today, Norah?
NW: I would like to talk about cars, but specifically, Formula 1.
SW: What?!
NW: Yeah.
SW: Exciting! Okay, okay. So. Wow. First of all, how did you get into it? You yourself are not a racer, I’m guessing.
NW: Oh, I’ve raced, yes.
SW: You are..! Okay. Back up. [both laugh] How did you get started? How did you…be a racer? Like, when did that happen? Tell us everything.
NW: Yeah. So I think like a lot of, you know, women who have lots of older brothers, I sort of followed my older brothers around. And my brother Tim is this genius car guy, and he built his own car when he was 15.
SW: Wow-w.
NW: And, and then it got wrecked. A drunk driver hit him while he was on his way to school. And then—
SW: Was he okay?
NW: he built another car. He’s…he’s okay.
SW: Yeah…yeah, I’m sorry.
NW: But, you know, he was, it’s, you know, I, it’s… He still loves cars. It didn’t, it didn’t, you know, affect his love for the cars. He does miss that car. It’ll come up every once in a while, and this was 30 years ago.
SW: Of course. Yeah.
NW: So he built another car and then—and I was always tagging along and, like, holding the flashlight and, you know, handing him the wrench.
SW: Right.
NW: And then when I turned 18, I bought my own project car, and we worked on it together. And that was a 1984 Camaro.
SW: Oh, wow. Okay.
NW: It was so cool. [Sandra laughs] And then, you know, I got older and my needs changed and everything, and I started working in San Francisco and didn’t need a car, so I had no car. And then, my husband bought a stick shift Mini, and I forgot how good I was at driving a stick shift.
SW: Yeah.
NW: And that reminded me. And as a sort of celebration for having my second baby, my husband got me into a racing school at Laguna Seca. I had done some sort of very, you know, like a big parking lot with some cones in it, racing and drag racing.
SW: Oh wow!
NW: But I hadn’t actually done like a race and I enjoyed it. But I did this school where it’s open wheel race cars and they’re Formula 4 cars, and it’s a racing shifter, and you’re in it and you’re wearing a helmet and it’s dangerous and there’s ambulances everywhere.
SW: Oh-h-h.
NW: And I, I had these racing instructors who, you know, did the, like, you know, 24-hour Le Mans and you know, these uphill, these mountain races, all these, you know, incredible races. And they thought I was experienced.
SW: Oh. Because..?
NW: And that was—it was almost sad in a way. I’m like, this is, this is just a one-time thing I’m getting to do. I have children. This is not actually my life. But they were talking to me as if I had years of experience and I thought, wow, this is so interesting, and I have a knack for it. And I didn’t even know I had a knack for it.
SW: Yeah.
NW: So I’ve done a few more racing schools since then, and that plus watching Formula 1, I feel now like I really understand the complexity of what’s going on in there.
SW: Okay.
NW: And I can tell when they’re about to crash. [both laugh] I can tell when—
SW: [laughing] The important part.
NW: Yeah, I mean, well, if I’m watching with my kids, I’ll be like, don’t look. [both laugh] This is braking zone. You can tell the suspensions lifted. Don’t look. He’s going to crash into the wall.
SW: [laughing] Okay. Wow. Okay, I need to back up.
NW: Yes.
SW: So first of all, what happened to your ’84 Camaro?
NW: Oh, I had an engine fire, and [Sandra gasps] yeah, it was my fault.
SW: Goodness.
NW: It was totally my fault. I. I was rebuilding the carburetor, and I didn’t put in the float correctly, and it flooded with fuel, and somehow there was a spark.
SW: Yeah.
NW: And I was okay. And actually, all the stuff in the car was okay. I had my CD wallet, you know, all these things.
SW: [laughing] Oh, really?
NW: Yeah. But it was just, it was totaled.
SW: Yeah. So just a reminder, folks, friends of the podcast, cars work on combustion. Do you know what this means? That means something gets—its little explosions. This is how your engine works. So in case, I mean, because we’re so used to it, we just don’t even think about it, you know, that we’re getting behind the wheel of this very dangerous machinery. So yeah. Wow.
NW:
It was, it was a good experience for racing. I mean, I feel like I’ve had something terrible happen and I got out of the car fine and everything. You know, I was safe. I didn’t even get hurt. And, you know, when you race, particularly, like an open wheel car, you need special equipment. So I had, I had a full race suit that’s fireproof, full, you know, gloves. The shoes were fire-rated. You know, I’m totally protected. I know how to get out quickly. So I was actually really relaxed…
SW: [laughing] Right.
NW: you know, going like [laughs] 140 miles an hour, but I’m like, well, you know, I know what could go wrong.
SW: Yeah. Okay. So you’ve mentioned the term a couple of times. So I’d like to know, what does it mean when you say, open wheel racing?
NW: Okay, so there’s different types of race cars. There’s the car’s just sort of like the regular road cars that, where the wheels are enclosed by the body…
SW: Okay, yep.
NW: and totally protected. Open wheel is more dangerous because the wheels are apart from the chassis. They’re, you know, apart from the body. And so if you go over something…
SW: Yeah
NW: you know, like a cone, you can upset the balance of the entire car and maybe damage it as well. And then, you know, break a control arm or something like that, a piece of the suspension, and then you won’t have steering.
SW: Yeah.
NW: And then you’re done. Yeah.
SW: Okay. So our…is that kind of designed specifically because it allows the cars to go faster?
NW: Yeah.
SW: Is that why they’re designed that way?
NW: And it handles so much better. I don’t particularly want to race a closed wheel car again. Now that I’ve done open wheel, I really prefer it. [laughs]
SW: Right. So was, were you racing closed wheel, when you were drag racing?
NW: Yes.
SW: Okay.
NW: Yeah. And that’s, that’s also, I mean, you’re just going in a straight line as fast as you can.
SW: Yeah.
NW: And that’s cool, but I don’t think I could do that again either. It’s not, it’s not as interesting to me. [both laugh]
SW: Okay, so drag racing… Okay, so for those of you and I who have watched certain movies about cars and racing…is drag racing…There’s an illegal kind that’s street racing, and then there’s actual competitions that are like, totally legal and sanctioned?
NW: Yes, I—
SW: Okay.
NW: I only went to the legal ones. I’m, I’m…
SW: [laughing] For the record. For the record, you only went to the legal ones.
NW: Absolutely. I’ve never broken the law. Ever.
SW: Ever. Ever. For anyone listening, now you know. [laughing]
NW:
Yeah. I mean, and actually, you know, honestly…years ago I saw an interview with Lewis Hamilton. He’s a famous Formula 1 driver, and he— Somebody asked him what he drives. This is Daily Driver. And he laughed and he said, I don’t drive. I have a driver. Like, I don’t, I don’t want to drive. And it’s so true. Now that I’ve been on race tracks with other semi-professional race car drivers, who—everybody knows what they’re doing, I don’t…I don’t want to drive. I live in New York City. I take a subway, I take the bus. I don’t want to drive.
SW:
Yeah. But you’re right in that driving a stick shift is so much more fun because I…I haven’t had a stick shift in a car in a while because I bought a hybrid years ago, and they just don’t, they just don’t do that for hybrids. And I miss it. It’s so much more fun. Like, if you have to be a peon like me [laughing] driving normal roads in a closed wheel car, having a stick shift makes it like, exponentially more fun.
NW: Yes. Yeah, it’s, it’s a lot of fun. And racing shifters are fun too, because instead of, you know, having the shape…
SW: Yeah
NW: You’re just, you’re going up and you’re going down. So when you…
SW: Oh-h-h.
NW: when you’re, when you’re slowing down, right, you… Let me make sure I get this right…
SW: Okay.
NW: Someone’s going to know that I got it wrong. I’m pretty sure it’s— So yeah, you downshift by pushing down, and then when you go to, yes, and when you go to accelerate, you’re pulling back. So you’re sort of going with your body motion.
SW: Right.
NW: And so it’s more…intuitive.
SW: Yeah.
NW: Instead of trying to find fourth or, you know, whatever, it’s just up or down. And your adrenaline’s so high that you— like, I always end up with blisters right there from shifting.
SW: Oh…yeah.
NW: Because I’m just, I’m in it.
SW: Yeah.
NW: I’m not paying attention to my body.
SW: Right along your palm. So, I mean, don’t—even if you’re wearing gloves, you’re going to get blisters there?
NW: Oh, yeah.
SW: Wow.
NW: Yeah. And I have to, I have to get special gloves because my hands are so small.
SW: Yeah.
NW: [chuckling] I have to get the kids gloves.
SW: [laughs] Oh, dear. Okay. I mean, I do have a, I do have a thought like—okay, so before I ask about F1, Formula 1, you mentioned you did F4. So what is, what is the number? What do the numbers mean?
NW: Yeah. It’s about the complexity of the car and the, and the horsepower. So these were the lower end of the horsepower, of the Formula range. And so these are the sort of cars like… Like, the school I was at, it was sort of divided into two groups. And there were these, basically children who are going to try and become Formula 1 drivers someday…
SW: Oh, wow.
NW: in the same cars. [laughs] So that was, you know, that hurt the pride a little bit. That this, like, 13 year old is—I’m getting the blue flag because this, this 13 year old wants to go around me. [both laughing]
SW: Yeah
NW: But that’s life. You know, I have a mortgage and kids. So what do you, like—
SW: [laughing] Exactly. [both laugh] Wow. Okay, so I know this is so basic because I don’t know anything about racing, but why is it, why is the word formula in it? What does that come from?
NW: Yeah. So if I remember correctly… So the Formula Series started after World War II. And formula is just, you know, like a catch-all phrase for standardization. There’s rules about what kind of cars you can run.
SW: Yeah.
NW: And so each manufacturer can make their own car, but they have to fit certain criteria.
SW: Okay.
NW: And so, so you know, say for example… So lately, Ferrari has this thing where they’re generating a lot of smoke out of their cars and everybody’s commenting on it.
SW: Yeah.
NW: But they keep saying, we meet the formula, we’re meeting the standards.
SW: Uh-huh.
NW: It’s just a slightly different way that we’re handling fuel. But they’ve been caught messing with fuel before. So I’m really curious how this is all going to shake out.
SW: Controversy! Ooh.
NW: Yeah. Oh, always. Always.
SW: Yeah. Well, it’s such a dramatic sport. I mean it’s—yeah, it’s a dramatic sport.
NW: Yes.
SW: Yeah. With personalities involved.
NW: Big time. They are, they can be so, drivers can be so catty. [Sandra laughs] The team managers have, you know, so many little tiffs. It’s, it’s not the main reason I watch, but it’s definitely like a bonus.
SW: Really?
NW: Yeah. There’s, there’s a series on Netflix called Drive to Survive.
SW: Okay.
NW: Which is really popular. And it sort of gets into this whole like, personalities and conflicts, and things like that. And, you know, it’s reality TV, so you have to think about that. But it is…it is part of the fun.
SW: Okay. So when did you stop racing? [laughs]
NW: I still have all my racing gear. I just don’t have a car to race. My brothers and I are thinking about doing a, a snow or ice track sometime. It’s… Basically, you have no grip, and it just seems like such a challenge.
SW: Yeah. [laughs in winter driving]
NW: But, you know. Yeah, I just need to find the time to do something like that—
SW: Yeah
NW: that would be in the winter.
SW: Yeah. You still want to do it?
NW: Yeah.
SW: You still want to do it. Wow. I do—
NW: I love it.
SW: So I do get the feeling that it’s, the world of, like, racing is, is pretty much dominated by men. They’re very few women who get into it. I’m sure there’s like— Also, I’m sure there’s barriers that are like, based in economics, right? Because even if you’re building your own car, you’re still going to need the wherewithal and the materials and the funds to make that happen, as well as the time.
NW: Yes, that’s absolutely true. And, you know, that was something that I was sort of processing, you know, at this racing school, was…seeing these children.
SW: Yeah.
NW:Who are getting a lot of sort of funding. I mean, they’re sponsored. There’s companies sponsoring them. Their fathers are fully committed to it. And that’s not the background I have. My dad was a locksmith. My mom was an emergency room nurse.
SW: Right.
NW: You know, I’m from South Brooklyn. Like, we did not have kart money, you know? And so that was never a path available to someone like me. And then, even as an adult now, I have, you know, the ability to do these things as a hobby. Finding a racing suit..? Was very difficult.
SW: Yeah.
NW: They, I could, you know, a lot of people say, oh, get them, get a boy suit because they’re shorter, but boys don’t have hips and…I have hips.
SW: Yeah.
NW: So I needed a women’s suit, and there’s, you know, three options, and…one’s pink, you know.
SW: [cracks up] Of course.
NW: [sighs]
It’s very frustrating. The glove situation. I had to get boys gloves. And, you know, they don’t match the women’s suit because it’s different color scheme. But yeah. And it’s interesting, the reason I got into Formula 1 was actually because of a woman. When I was in high school, I knew this lady who had worked for Bernie Ecclestone, who was the head of the, Formula 1 for a long time. And she did sort of like location management, not, not really involved in the cars themselves, but. And she loved F1, and she had a satellite dish on her house so she could watch the races live, and she would get up at 3:00 in the morning to watch these races. And she got me really into it. And she talked to me mostly about the pit crews and how much they practice and how they’d, like, play ping pong together to get themselves synchronized and how they, they’re this tight unit because they have to change all the wheels on the car within 2.5 seconds.
SW: Yeah.
NW: Which is if you’ve been to Discount Tire [Sandra cracks up] that’s insane to think about [laughs quietly] you know.
SW: Yeah.
NW: And there has to be someone on the team who is willing to step in front of a Formula 1 car coming in at, you know, 60 km/h, with a jack to jack up the car and then get away in time. And you all have to trust each other implicitly. And so, she was actually the one who got me into the concept of the pit crew.
SW: Right.
NW: And then from there, I got interested in the racing.
SW: Okay, okay. So another thing—and I’m picking up terms, I think I’m picking up terms. You said about your family, you didn’t have cart money. What does that mean?
NW: Yes. So, I mean—
SW: [laughing] I think I know what it means, but what does it mean?
NW: So if you know a child is interested, or parents of a child, are interested in their, you know, kid becoming a racer, you have to start out in kart. Starts with a k not a c.
SW: Okay. [chuckles]
NW: And they’re like go karts, but they’re more professional. They go a little faster. They have more, you know, the better steering, things like that. But if you look at a Formula 1 car, the steering wheel has all kinds of buttons and stuff.
SW: Right.
NW:
They don’t have anything like that. It’s just a steering wheel. Sometimes it’s flappy paddles, but it’s usually a racing shifter. It’s very basic because they want the kids to understand how to handle and how to pass, all that basic stuff. And then as the cars get more powerful, it gets more complex, but…kids start dropping out because they’re not as good. They can’t get the sponsorship. The cars are too expensive. Yeah. So that’s, that’s what I mean by kart money.
SW: Oh-h-h. Yeah. I’m also like, my mind is getting blown by the idea of a 13 year old being given control of a, of a full size vehicle.
NW: Yeah, 140 mile per hour top speed vehicle. It’s…yeah, and these kids were crashing, you know. I mean, they were passing me. They were going faster than I was, but they were spinning out all the time and, but they, that’s what you’re supposed to do. You’re supposed to find the limit and then go back just enough.
SW: Right.
NW: And you can win. But yeah, I thought it was really something.
SW: Yeah. That’s harrowing. I’m sorry, but that sounds, you know, and then, like, jacking up their adrenaline like that and they’re so young, jacking up your adrenaline like that all the time. Wow.
NW: Yeah, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t want that for my kids.
SW: Also, it occurs to me, too, that you’d have to be physiologically a certain height, have a certain amount of muscle mass by the time you’re 13 or something to really be able to drive a full size vehicle. [chuckling] Like.
NW: Yeah, yeah. And, and there’s definitely an advantage to being shorter. Obviously, there are no women in Formula 1 right now, so that, that doesn’t help, but.
SW: Yeah.
NW: So shorter men tend to do better. There are, I think, George Russell and Alex Albon are the tallest Formula 1 drivers right now. And they’re, they’re like, six foot. They’re tall.
SW: Yeah.
NW: And so that’s a challenge for them.
SW: Oh I never thought about that.
NW: Yeah. You need, you know, all the seats are custom made for a driver. But the mounting brackets are different if you’re taller because they have to get you totally in and you have to clear the halo with your helmet. And so there’s an advantage to being a smaller guy.
SW: Yeah. What’s the—
NW: And—
SW: What’s the halo you mentioned that you have to clear? What does that mean?
NW: It’s this incredible piece of safety equipment, and it goes around the top of the cockpit of the F1 car.
SW: Yep.
NW: And it’s supposed to protect you if you flip. And I believe it was last year at Imola, a Japanese race car driver, Yuki Tsunoda, his Red Bull lost control and he flipped and he skidded for just a bit on the top. And it was a horrible accident and in the past, it would have been fatal, but—he walked away from it. He got right out of the car. He was totally fine.
SW: Wow.
NW: And then before that, I think it was 2021. Oh, I can’t remember, I’m traumatized by it. Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton had a scuffle and Verstappen’s tire got on top of the halo and there was tire marks on Lewis Hamilton’s helmet. But he would have been dead without the halo.
SW: What?!?
NW: So—incredible piece of safety equipment. I don’t know what it’s made out of. Just staggering to imagine…
SW: Yeah.
NW: a whole car on top of you.
SW: Yeah. Okay, so you mentioned that you watch F1 racing now. So is there a season? When does it start? When does it end, or is it year round?
NW: It’s almost year round now.
SW: Yeah.
NW: There’s so many races, but they’re on summer break right now. But they come back in a couple of weeks. They just, yeah, they just had the Hungarian Grand Prix, which is the worst track. [Sandra cracks up] I hate that track. It’s dirty and narrow and so the cars can’t pass each other very well.
SW: Okay.
NW: And so the only time that they pass is during pit, or if somebody crashes. Very frustrating. It’s not fun to watch. But yeah, so different different tracks are more exciting than others. But yeah, we’re, we’re kind of mid-season right now.
SW: Okay.
NW: And right now, a teenager is winning. He’s got the most points in the Drivers Championship, which…we all joke in my family that he’s our, he’s our precious boy [both laugh] because he’s just this—he looks like a teenager and he seems, he seems very sweet.
SW: Right.
NW: Kind of nerdy. And so, you know, when someone, like, cuts him off or punctures his tire, then you go, our poor boy, our poor baby.
SW: [laughs] Okay. What, oh. Say—so what’s his name? The teenager.
NW: Kimi Antonelli. And he races for Mercedes. He took over Lewis Hamilton’s seat. Lewis Hamilton moved to Ferrari.
SW: Oh, okay. Ah, okay, so. You mentioned the Drivers Championship and there are points. So every race…you get points for where you place? Or, you have to, only a certain top three get points? Or like, how does that work?
NW: It’s, the top ten get points.
SW: Okay.
NW: And, but realistically, it’s usually between the people who consistently score in the top five who’s going to win. Lewis Hamilton won, I think seven championships. Max Verstappen…has he only won two..? Maybe. I think he’s won two. Wait, I shoulda done more research.
SW: [laughing] Yeah. No, that’s just fine. I mean, I won’t know the difference. [Norah laughs] Maybe some listener out there will, but it’s fine.
NW: I’m sorry for your inbox in the future. [both laugh] You can complain at me on Bluesky, I’m there. But yeah, so. So this teenager sort of coming out of nowhere, he was supposed to be the second driver on a team, like the sort of, like, you know, the young and up and coming talent. And he’s just like, got it all together.
SW Yeah.
NW: And it’s so fun to watch.
SW: That’s so cool. Okay, so since you mentioned your least favorite track, the Hungarian Grand Prix, do you have a favorite? [laughs]
NW: Yeah. [long pause] I think it’s Spa, even though it’s very dangerous.
SW: I don’t even know what that is. [laughs]
NW: It’s in…it’s in Belgium I think. [sotto voce] Is it in Belgium..? Boy. [at normal volume] Yeah. [Sandra laughs] Spa is incredible. It’s got these, these turns that, there’s, there’s turns that just, they go downhill and then they go back uphill and then you turn and just the sweep of it, it just looks like a painting. It’s just gorgeous. And the track’s nice and wide and there’s lots—I feel like there’s a good amount of opportunity for passing.
SW: Right.
NW: I almost feel like I have more tracks I don’t like the ones than ones I consistently love. I hate Miami [Sandra laughs] it’s just offensive. And Vegas is even worse. That’s—but…yeah, no, it’s— I’ll watch anything. I’ll watch them all. They know I will.
SW: Yeah, but I mean, part of… Okay. So why is Miami and Las Vegas, why are their tracks so offensive? First, we’ll go there.
NW: So yeah. So they just, they feel kind of, ill thought-out.
SW: Mm. Yeah.
NW:
You know, they’ve, they’ve had to make tweaks. The first time they did the Vegas race, Carlos Sainz, who was racing for Ferrari at the time, I think it was in practice. I don’t think it was qualifying. He went over a manhole cover and the downforce from the car sucked up the manhole cover and damaged his car, and he couldn’t even finish preparing for the race correctly because they hadn’t—they just left a manhole cover there. I mean, I assume they welded it, but these cars create
SW: Yeah
NW: a tremendous amount of downforce and the vacuum of it just pulled up a manhole cover. I don’t know, it’s just…
SW: Yeah, that seems, that seems like amateur hour.
NW: Yeah. Unserious. It feels unserious.
SW: Yeah.
NW: They should be at real racetracks and those two aren’t, in my opinion.
SW: Yeah. So I mean, anyone who watches a sport as a fan, sometimes part of the fun is bitching about… [laughs]
NW: Yeah.
SW: Okay, not sometimes. [laughs] Most of the time you need to have something you bitch about. So all of these tracks you think are awful, you’re still going to watch to see what happens, right? on the, during the races. [laughs]
NW: Yes, they’ve got me, they’ve got me.
SW: They’ve got you. Yeah, yeah. So your kids watch with you, too? Like, happily or grudgingly or [laughs] what?
NW: They complain. They complain a lot. No, they hate it. I, we actually joke because the youngest will suddenly decide to start singing [Sandra laughs] if we put on a race. No singing before, no singing after. But it’s musical theater time when we’re trying to listen to, you know, like, what was that penalty for? You know, I’m trying to, but we can’t hear it because she’s singing.
SW: Oh, suspicious, very suspicious.
NW: Yes.
SW: Wow. So if someone wanted to, like, try to watch an F1 race, what would you tell them? Which one would you tell them to start with?
NW: Oh, just whatever’s on, whatever’s on that’s, I feel like—
SW: Really?
NW: Yeah. And then have your favorite social media open and find the people who are talking about it, because I think that’s part of the fun, too, is, you know, like, I personally get a lot of joy out of making fun of George Russell, [Sandra laughs] who is the other driver at Mercedes…
SW: [laughing] Uh-huh.
NW: because I just imagine he’s been told for years he’s going to be the number one driver when Lewis leaves, and then they get this actual child in [chuckles] and he wins over and over. And, you know, George just bought himself a yacht in Monaco and now, he’s basically second driver. It must be, it must be soul-crushing in some way.
SW: [laughing] Oh no.
NW: And so I will watch the race and have Bluesky open just to see if anybody’s posting any…funny memes about Mr. Russell.
SW: Yeah. So, is the hashtag on Bluesky just F1 or F1Racing or what?
NW: Yeah, I don’t really do the hashtags. I just have, you know, you can, you can get a feed, there’s a Formula 1 feed and then just go to that.
SW: Okay.
NW: Yeah.
SW: Yeah, so friends on Bluesky, you know where to go if you want to check it out. So what’s the next race? Okay, we are recording this on… Oh, it’s July 31st, so we’re probably not going to drop this until in the fall. So in the fall, what are some exciting races in like, September or October?
NW: Let’s see. Let me find the schedule… So we got Netherlands in August. But you’re saying that’s gonna be in after September?
SW: Yeah.
NW: You know the other thing too, the other thing that’s really terrible is Formula 1— oh, just Formula 1 is the organization that runs the FIA. They are incredibly irritating. [Sandra cracks up] It’s, you have to, like, they sold the streaming rights to Apple, which is fine for us. We have Apple TV, but a lot of people don’t have Apple TVs, and…how are they going to watch these races?
SW: That’s so interesting. So, for people who haven’t put two and two together, I guess, so Apple bought the rights to F1 racing and oh my gosh, they had a film, a movie they made about F1 racing.
NW: Uhhh. I have not watched.
SW: Coincidence? I think not. I, I’m not interested, to be honest. And like, the star of that, it’s like too problematic for me. I can’t watch.
NW: 100%. Totally agree. And the concept, I briefly read about the concept and I was not into it.
SW: Yeah, no thank you. But you can watch the actual racing.
NW: Yes.
SW: And watch the pit crews because—I have seen pit crews, right? We’ve all, I think most of us have seen clips of pit crews and like, it’s amazing how quickly they work. Really just, like, mind blowing.
NW: Yes. And there are women in those pit crews. They’re hard to tell because they’re in their full suits. But there are women there. And…yeah, you know, if I can recommend a book.
SW: Yeah.
NW:
Bernie Collins, who does the commentary for the Sky Sports audio for F1, she used to be a, you know, a team strategist for McLaren and a few other teams. And she wrote a book called How to Win a Grand Prix. And it’s fantastic. And it also sort of illustrates a lot of the problems with being a woman in this industry. And she doesn’t really…explicitly state it, but you can read between the lines and sort of get a sense of what was going on.
SW: Yeah.
NW: But that’s just such a great background on how complicated these jobs are and how many people have to work to get one guy to drive the car.
SW: Yeah.
NW: Which it almost makes the, the actual drivers more like, almost like a movie star in a movie when you have the whole production
SW: Mm-hm
NW: and, you know, the screenwriter and the director and all those different people, but there’s just, you know, you just see the one person. But a lot goes into it.
SW: Yeah. Okay. So I hope I filled enough air for you to find [laughs] some great races to tell us about in September/October.
NW: I did, yes! So October 11th we got the Singapore Grand Prix. That’s, that’s gonna be good.
SW: Good, good track? Bad track?
NW: I like that track.
SW: Okay.
NW: And sometimes it rains there and rain can be…tricky [Sandra laughs] because—I didn’t even talk about the tires. Tire strategy is a whole thing, too.
SW: Tire strategy. Okay. Do tell.
NW: So, yeah, so race cars usually run on slicks. They have no tread. They’re just soft rubber.
SW: Right.
NW: And there’s a variety of soft rubber compounds that the teams can use. And so you usually have three that you can use for the race. And they’re designated hard, medium, and soft. Soft doesn’t last as long. Hards are supposed to last longer. But each car seems to prefer its own tire compound.
SW: Right.
NW: Just with the suspension and the temperature, all kinds of factors. But if it rains, then they have intermediates which have some tread on them. And then there’s full wets, which are very rarely used because I think at this point, if you need to use full wets, they’ll red flag the race and wait for the rain to stop just out of safety. But if it rains just a little bit…
SW: Yeah.
NW:
Then there’s a lot of conflict about, do we go to intermediates and have the better traction but the tires wear out faster? Or, do we stick with the slicks, the softs or the mediums, and see how long we can go and stay on track, without losing the 20 seconds to the pit stop or whatever. And this sort of comes— Like, another thing I find pretty interesting, and this sort of relates to my work, honestly, is a lot of my books sort of, the characters are dealing with sort of hostile work environments, the bosses not caring about their workers sort of things. And you can kind of see that with some of these teams. They’ll leave their drivers out in what I would consider unsafe conditions because they don’t want the penalty of the pit stop.
SW: Right.
NW: And so that becomes a factor with the…the drivers are arguing with their teams about wanting to come in, and you sort of get caught up in that drama.
SW: Yeah. Well, how long? I can’t believe I haven’t asked this yet. How long does one race take?
NW: It’s like an hour and a half, I think.
SW: Wow.
NW: Maybe two hours. It depends on, you know…yeah, and there’s different numbers of laps based on how long the track is. Yeah, it varies, but it’s—and then also, of course, if there’s a red flag, there’s a delay, while they get the track conditions correct, but yeah, that’s… The only thing that has a set time is qualifying.
SW: Yeah.
NW: Well, I guess you can red flag a qualifying and come back. But yeah mostly it’s, it’s in 15-minute increments and then goes down to 12, I think. So it’s pretty fixed. And if you run out of time, if there’s red flag that lasts too long, that’s the end of qualifying. And whoever did that well is going to end up in pole position, and you know, going on down. But yeah.
SW: So then, the pit stops. When do they happen, ideally? When does, you know, the team want them to happen, ideally?
NW: Yeah, so this is a whole job.
SW: Yeah. [laughs]
NW: There’s a, whole teams that just try and come up with a strategy. And so depending on the specific track, there’s some tracks where somebody crashes every time. And so sometimes they’ll put the car on softs, thinking, okay, someone’s going to crash really soon [Sandra laughs, incredulous] and then we can bring them, change the tires, put them back out. Because we don’t need the tires to last that long. We know…
SW: Right.
NW: Nikita Mazepin is going to crash in the second turn. Which happened. This guy crashed, I think three times before he finished a full lap.
SW: Whoa.
NW:
Which was very frustrating. But then, you know, then you get these other people who they, they never want to pit. And so they’ll start on hards and they’ll go as long as they can and only pit because they have to. If there’s, you know, mandated numbers of pit stops, you have to do it. And they just will murder their tires and just try to ride them as long as they can. So yeah, it felt like the last race, the Hungarian Grand Prix, they pitted a lot more than I was expecting. I think…three times, maybe four.
SW: Mm-hm.
NW: Yeah, and that can cause, you know, changes in ordering and also some conflicts with the teams because each team has two drivers. So a team like McLaren, where they basically have two number one drivers, they’re constantly dealing with one driver wants to come in and pit, but the other one wants to come in and pit. And they have to pick between the two. And it’s very…dicey.
SW: Yeah. So does the mandated number of pit stops depend on the track?
NW: Yeah. It’s, the stewards set it, yeah.
SW: Also you’re talking about like, a team like McLaren—now I sound like I know what I’m talking about—so with a team like McLaren, when they have like, basically two number ones, like, the word diva comes to mind. Is it sort of like managing divas?
NW: [laughing] Yes..? [Sandra laughs] It’s incredible. I mean, these are all young men, well moisturized, [Sandra cracks up] nice watches, you know, perfect eyebrows.
SW: Yeah.
NW: And they’re all competing against each other. I mean, that’s basically what’s going on. And then you have Valtteri Bottas who looks like he belongs in, you know, just a hillbilly movie or something. [Sandra cracks up] He looks very different, but everybody else—
SW: Which is fine. We’re not saying there’s anything wrong with that.
NW: It’s fine, very, very accepting. I mean, he’s a great driver, so it works for him. [Sandra laughs] But yeah, you know, these, they, you know, they have their model girlfriends and, you know, it’s, they’re very, you can feel it. You can feel that they love themselves very much. [Sandra cracks up] And, and that causes some just delightful moments.
SW: And friction. Some friction.
NW: Yeah. I think there’s, on YouTube, there’s like a supercut of all the times that Charles Leclerc has complained about his car, other people, whatever. He’s hysterical. But I encourage everyone to just look up Leclerc’s complaints on YouTube.
SW: [laughing] Excellent, I will. I will try and find that and I’ll link it in the show notes so people can find it easily. That’s so funny. Like, I know that we’re just touching the surface of F1, so, let’s just wrap up this portion with saying: you mentioned October 11th, Singapore Grand Prix.
NW: Yes.
SW: Are there a couple more you want to let people know about?
NW: The Mexico Grand Prix is one of my favorites. I would love to go to it someday.
SW: Yeah.
NW: I’ve never been in person. That’s one I would just love to go to, and that is on November 1st.
SW: Okay.
NW: Yeah. And then Vegas is on the 21st, so you can have other plans that day. You don’t need to watch that one.
SW: [cracking up]
That is so cool. Oh, I’m, I have so many questions, but I know that we should probably draw it to a close because, you know, we have to end these episodes at some point. People need to do things with their days. And I’m sure, Norah, you’re quite busy, so thank you for sharing that. Now we’ve shared some races people can check out, and for sure I’m going to be watching your Bluesky if and when you try this winter snow track, ice track thing. I’m very curious to know how that goes. I live in a winter city. I know what it’s like to drive on ice [laughing] It is harrowing. So yeah, I hope that works out for you though, because you look like you’re really excited to try it. [laughs]
NW: I’m really— It’s, I don’t like driving on ice…in a passenger car. And so the idea of doing it in a car, I can, you know, bump into things with and, and maybe I’ll learn something and feel a little bit more confident the next time I have to drive on ice. [Sandra laughs] I’m looking forward to it. [laughs]
SW: Okay. Awesome. Okay. So we’re going to move into the Small Joys segment. So, yeah, Norah, why don’t you let us know, what is something that you do or have that lifts your spirits when you need it?
NW: Yeah, I love to play video games.
SW: Oh, yeah.
NW: And so I play, right now I’m playing, I think it’s Yoshi and the Mysterious Book. I think it’s the Mysterious Book… Anyway, it’s on the Switch 2 and we just call it the Yoshi game, and… It’s a gentle game, you can’t die.
SW: Yeah.
NW: You’re just exploring and it’s nice. And when I need to, you know, when I need, like, ten minutes, I just go on there. I put in the parent code so I can play my own ten minutes… [Sandra laughs] Then I play that and the kids get mad. They’re like, hey, I already used up my time. And I’m like, It’s Mom’s time.
SW: Yeah. [laughs]
NW: So, you know, and before kids, it was different games, you know, Mass Effect and Ghosts of Tsushima, and, you know, more violent games. But those days are behind me now. It has to be gentle games.
SW: Gentle games, yeah. [laughs] Well, I can let you know that once your kids get older, you can go back to all the violent stuff because they will be playing the violent stuff, so [laughs]
NW: Oh, I can’t, I mean, I, I can’t wait, but also—oh no.
SW: Yeah.
NW: Just double feeling on that one.
SW: [laughing] Life is complicated, isn’t it?
NW: [chuckling] Yes. It really is.
SW:
Okay. Well, thank you for sharing that. I have not heard of that game before, so I might look it up. I’m not a big video game player, but sometimes it just depends on the game. Yeah, so. That’s so cool. Okay. So listeners, you know what’s next. It’s the world famous Speed Round. So Norah does not know what this is about. So Norah, the Speed Round is where I ask you silly questions and you just, like, answer whatever comes to you off the top of your head. There are zero stakes. There, you know, there’s no judgments. It’s just in the name of being silly and fun. So are you ready?
NW: I’m ready.
SW: Okay. This season. season two, we are doing favourites. So I’m going to ask you your favourite—or you can name afavourite because sometimes it’s hard to just choose one—in different categories. So here we go. Number one, favourite way or ways to eat potatoes.
NW: Roasted.
SW: Roasted. Oh yeah, I like that one, too. Yeah. Okay. Favourite pizza toppings.
NW: Pepperoni. Kind of a traditionalist.
SW: Ye-e-e-s. Okay. Favourite comfy outfit when you’re just schlepping around at home?
NW: Lounge pants that have a pocket big enough for my phone.
SW: Yes.
NW: Lotta lounge pockets have no—or lounge pants have no pockets. Which kind of defeats the whole purpose of lounging, in my opinion. I want to put my phone away.
SW: That’s right. Fashion brands, if you’re listening, women like pockets, okay? There. I’ve said it.
NW: Yes. We need pockets.
SW: Yeah. Okay. Next up is favourite holiday.
NW: Halloween.
SW: Oh, yeah. Yeah, I get it, I get it. Okay, favourite tree. And if you don’t have a tree, favourite flower. Or, maybe you have one of each.
NW: Oh. So we had a Chinese elm at our last house, and I loved that tree. I would just, I would move my lounge chair underneath that tree.
SW: Yeah.
NW: And then write, and I would just write underneath that tree. And I miss it… Yeah, I think I’m just going to leave it with that tree. Nothing comes close to that tree.
SW: So are Chinese elms, are they really huge? Like, here where I am, Dutch elms are kind of the standard. So I don’t know exactly what a Chinese elm looks like.
NW: Yeah. I mean, this one, I always [chuckles] I sort of joked that this one kind of looked like Sideshow Bob from The Simpsons. [Sandra cracks up] It was…
SW: [laughing] Okay, yeah.
NW: sort of narrow, and then, and then just had like, a plume and, you know, little hanging bits, but, I—yeah, see, now I’ve insulted it [Sandra cracks up] but even though I love it so much. But yeah, the bark was a little light-colored, yeah.
SW: Yeah. Okay. I might have to find a photo and link to it in the, in the show notes, so we can all decide for ourselves if it looks like Sideshow Bob. [both laugh] Okay, here is the next one, which is, your favourite kind of movie or TV show to wind down with.
NW: Wind down with…
SW Yeah.
NW: [long pause] Yeah, I think for winding down, I really like baking shows.
SW: Oh, yeah. Yeah [laughs] I see it.
NW: I like reality baking shows. I just, because I can’t, I mean, I could bake a little bit, but not really. And so I just know that that’s not a skill I have. I can’t do better than them.
SW: Right.
NW: And I just enjoy the ride. Anything else makes me think too much.
SW: Yeah. No, that’s great. [laughing] Okay, we’re almost done. Two more. Favourite kind of chocolate.
NW: Dark chocolate, with a little bit of salt? Mm.
SW: Excellent. And this one, every time I have an author guest, I’m like, okay, you can say a favorite or favorite of the day or of the moment. Favourite word?
NW: Oh…favorite word.
SW: A favorite word. I could never pick just one.
NW: [softly] A favourite word… [long pause] Intuition.
SW: Oh, yeah.
NW: I like that one.
SW: I like that one, that’s excellent. Well, thank you Norah, I hope you had fun. [laughs]
NW: I did. Yes.
SW: Excellent. Yeah? I’m sorry, I cut you off.
NW: I feel like I didn’t do justice to Formula 1. It’s so complicated. [laughs]
SW:
Yeah, exactly. There’s so much, so complicated. Do not, I mean, don’t be surprised if someone comes to you on Bluesky and just, like, asks you some questions about it once the show drops. [laughs] But thank you so much for joining me, Norah. I really appreciate it. Thank you too for contributing to Romancing the Vote, which is, for those of you who don’t know in the audience here, it is an auction that happens every couple of years. Originally put together by Bree Bridges, who is half of the romance author juggernaut Kit Rocha. And then the other romance author is Courtney Milan, and the two of them are friends, and they put together this auction to raise money for democracy and voting rights. And 2026 version, I—excuse me [clears throat] am I getting verklempt? Maybe I’m getting verklempt. [laughs] I put up a spot in the, in the podcast here for, as an auction item, and Norah was one of the winners. So thank you so much, Norah, for contributing to democracy. We’re all in this together.
NW: Yes. Thank you. And thank you so much for, for providing this thing to donate to, I mean, to try and win. It’s, it makes the whole thing go. It takes two halves to make this work. And, what a, what a delight. I loved being on here. I love the podcast. It’s been so fun.
SW:
Thank you so much. Thank you so much, lovelies, as always, for joining me. You know, I will have as many relevant links as I can in the show notes. I’ll probably hit Norah up for all the names of the, of the drivers that she mentioned, and I’ll just pop them in there, too…for anyone who wants to look up divas. Okay, so we will meet up again soon, everyone. And in the meantime, you know what I’m going to say: create joy for yourself and others, however works for you because we contain multitudes.
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SW: We Contain Multitudes is on The Incomparable network of smart and funny pop culture podcasts where members can access exclusive podcasts and a wonderful community. Find out more at theincomparable.com.
Special thanks, as always, to Erika Ensign, our editrix extraordinaire of Castria Communications. Award-winning excellence in podcast production and media solutions. Check them out at wearecastria.com.
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SHOW NOTES:
Norah’s website
1984 Camaro Z28
Drive to Survive
How to Win a Grand Prix by Bernie Collins
FIA Kart Racing
Competitive Formula 4
Yuki Tsunoda crash at Imola in 2025
Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton crash (2021)
Leclerc losing his temper on the radio, long compilation
George Russell, losing his temper at the Belgian GP
Kimi Antonelli
George Russell
Lewis Hamilton
Max Verstappen
Yuki Tsunoda
Charles Leclerc
Carlos Sainz
Valtteri Bottas
Nikita Mazepin, spinning out
Laguna Seca Raceway
Yoshi and The Mysterious Book
Example of a Chinese elm