This delightful chat with Grant happened in December 2025, and you will absolutely have to imagine the fullness of all my laughter and background chuckles because I honestly couldn’t include every single instance in this transcript. As usual, though, I did my best to stay faithful to the content and high spirits of our conversation. Just…imagine that Grant generally spoke with an audible smile in his voice.
Show notes are included after this transcript. (If you somehow stumbled across this post without knowing about the podcast episode, hi! Here’s a handy link to find the interview on the web.)
TRANSCRIPT:
[jazzy jumpin’ music]Sandra Wong: Hello and welcome to We Contain Multitudes, the casual interview show with famous and accomplished guests who share the geek-outs, hobbies, and interests which they might not necessarily be known for. I am your host, Sandra Wang, and today I have the intense pleasure of being joined by Grant Stovel. Hi, Grant.
Grant Stovel: [laughs] Hi, Sandra. This is so cool. Thank you for having me on your magnificent program.
SW: Oh, you’re so kind, always so kind. So here’s a little thing I’m going to hopefully pleasantly surprise you with, Grant, which is I’ve written up a little bio.
GS: Oka-y-y-y.
SW: As you well know, I did not ask you for any materials. I just made this up based on my research and my warm, fuzzy feelings. [Grant laughs] So here we go for our listeners. Grant Stovel is a fixture in the music and culture scene, especially here in Alberta, where we both live, but also around the world through the magic of a radio app [laughs] and streaming. So, as the host of the Hidden Track podcast and as a long-time broadcaster and producer at CKUA Radio, as well as our local campus station, CJSR, Grant has shared tidbits, interviews, and the music of thousands—if not tens of thousands—of musical artists, not to mention his many features on artists in other disciplines such as writing, poetry, theatre, film, and more! It would be so tempting to say, oh, it’s so exhausting just thinking about it. But, the truth is, I think it’s really wonderful to consider just how many spirits Grant has lifted over the years with his jovial nature, his vast store of musical knowledge, and his enviable ability to be peppy no matter the hour, but especially nowadays, at the crack of 6:00 a.m. every weekday morning. Well done, Grant. [both laugh]
GS: Well done, Sandra, I have to debate some of your research there on some of the finer, kinder, things you said, but thank you so much, Sandra. I’m just out here having a good time, and, luckily, I get to share it with lots of people, and I’m so blessed to get to do that.
SW: Yeah, I totally get that. It’s so cool listening to you every morning, as I do on the weekdays, and just knowing that there’s so many other people out there, like, enjoying, like, the music that you’re sharing and also the tidbits behind the music, which I really enjoy. So today, I know we’re going to talk about something that’s kind of related, but can you tell our listeners what you want to chat about today?
GS: Sure, I’d love to. Well, before I became hugely famous to a very, very tiny percentage [Sandra laughs] of Albertans and CKUA listeners around the world, I had the great pleasure and privilege of being a quote-unquote, full time musician. And some times were fuller than others, but I played drums for a variety of different roots and blues and country music acts, as well as a few other situations that I got myself into that was…I was in way over my head. But I was really fortunate to get a chance to go on the road with tons of people all across Canada and North America, and just generally get to play live, in a million bazillion different settings, and even do some recording with some folks. That really means a lot to me.
SW: Oh wow.
GS: Yeah, and I just kind of, like, accidentally backed my way into a career in radio. And so I ended up weirdly getting this, you know, [chuckles] a Monday to Friday full time job, you know, which was something I had no experience in up until this stage. And, really just through dumb luck, and by being—I mean, you mentioned I’m a fixture, I think of myself as a fixture. Only then, I’m kind of, like, fixed to whatever, wherever my chair happens to be. [both laugh] I’m not particularly dynamic. I still don’t really know how exactly I won the lottery and got a chance to work full time at the radio station that I grew up listening to, but I thank my lucky stars I did. I really, really enjoyed my time as a full-time musician, however. Through all of my 20s and most of my 30s, that was how I earned my debatable living. [Sandra chuckles] And, and it was a real joy to get to do so.
SW: Right. So, I’m really interested because I did know you were a drummer. When did you start that? As a child or a teen? How did you get into drumming?
GS: I really have— For some reason. I just always wanted to play drums, and I guess it might be down to my parents and the fact that there was great music in that household ever since—you know, I mean, I like to joke, I’ve been listening to the Beatles since I was in utero because, you know, my parents were constantly blasting the music that they loved. And, and it ranged from the Beatles to, you know, some old time folk and blues albums by Leadbelly to lots of classical. My mum in particular, really deeply into classical. And I just remember being a little kid and lying on the floor of our den, when I was probably 4 or 5 years old, and just thinking, I don’t know if I was watching The Muppet Show on TV or what it was, but I just remember a switch going off and thinking, yep, that’s it, I’m going to play drums and not thinking of a career, of course, or anything like that, but that was just a passion for whatever reason. And I remember, on my way home from school one day, seeing in the window of the music shop that they were, you know, were selling cheap drumsticks. And so I asked my parents for, like. a $2 bill or [both laugh] whatever it was at the time and, and bought a pair of drumsticks. And from there I ended up getting a practice pad. And then eventually, when I was 14, I managed to bamboozle my parents into buying me, or at least forking out initially, for a drum kit at Lillo’s Music, which is a pretty legendary Edmonton spot.
SW: Oh-h yes
GS: Yeah, they had this big, extremely entry level, used Maxwin drum set with, like, all these single headed tom-toms. And it was, like, at that stage, I was kind of obsessed with Keith Moon, and he seemed like everything—and was!—everything a 14-year-old aspiring drummer could want. And
SW: Right
GS: so we brought that home, put it in a tiny closet in the basement where literally it barely even fit, and I just made the most giant clatter for the rest of my teens. And that’s kind of, it just kind of rolled right into my quote-unquote adulthood. And by that point, I was already, like, connecting with friends and playing in bands. And the next thing you know, other opportunities crop up and it just kind of kept drifting along like that, oddly enough. So I graduated from high school, or at least I think I graduated. I finished high school and [both laugh] and basically just kind of started playing with people, mostly in the blues idiom for the most part, right from there.
SW: Yeah, yeah. Okay. So, I am not a musician. I wish I were, I love music. So, I just want to back up. You said you were surrounded by tom-toms…
GS: Yes [laughs]
SW: So, what is, what are those?
GS: Well, I guess you could say that the basic drum kit, as we know it, is kind of broken down into a few key components. Probably the most crucial one being the bass drum or the kick drum. You know, the big one that you hit with the
SW: Okay
GS: foot pedal. And that makes a satisfying low thump. And then, there’s the snare drum, which is kind of its counterpoint and answers, and plays the backbeat, you know, oftentimes anyway. So, it makes a sharper, higher pitched sound with wires running underneath the bottom head of the drum. So, it kind of makes a sparkly, bright sound. So, when you hear a beat, it’s often an interplay on the drum set between the bass drum on the downbeat and then the snare drum on the back beat, as it were. And then you’ve got cymbals, of course, which kind of fill in the color and the sizzle. And then on top of that, there’s a sort of more optional drums that you have on your drum set frequently, which would be tom-toms as they’re known, which is kind of like a series of mounted or suspended drums that often range from, you know, smallest to biggest across the drum kit. So, when you hear somebody playing like, [in descending tone] doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
SW: Yes-s-s
GS: you know, they’re often like, doing a big fill, as we call it, all the way down the tom-toms. And they’re, often, you know, you can get by with just one or two of those, or none even, in a lot of cases. But, for somebody who’s really wanting to embark upon expressing everything [chuckling] they possibly can at every moment when they’re a teenager behind the drum kit, having lots of toms and lots of cymbals is a ton of fun. You know, it’s just like a big old, painter’s box of ways to splash colour around.
SW: Right. And so I’m just thinking about all the 80s videos.
GS: [laughs] Yes! Yes.
SW: Like, the concert videos, right? And the drummers have these massive arrays
GS: [laughing] Yep
SW: around them in this semicircle. So, when you’re setting up tom-toms, and you, you… So, listeners, Grant was gesturing which, which direction he was going with the tom-toms in that sound [before]. Do you get to—whether you’re right-handed or left-handed, you get to set them up in a different order?
GS: Yeah, yeah. And a lot of people like to change it up. Some people, you know, sort of learn just in a self-taught fashion and end up doing it a certain way that’s unique to them, which is really cool. And in fact, a lot of the ways that we typically, the techniques of drum set playing kind of evolved in a slapdash way anyhow. So,
SW: Oh?
GS: a lot of the things that most drummers do aren’t necessarily based on sound ergonomic logic, you know. [Sandra laughs] Like the way that you see drummers always crossing over, you know, their
SW: Yes!
GS: hand. The right hand—if they’re right handed—is playing the hi hat cymbal and underneath there, their left hand is playing the snare drum. That’s actually not a super smart way of doing it, even though I do that. We mostly, as drummers, tend to do it.
SW: Right.
GS: But that’s because the technique of playing something with your right hand on a cymbal came up before there was such a thing as a hi hat cymbal, you know, which you could play with a stick. So, that’s just an instance of how things kind of evolved in a slightly, you know, I guess, scattershot and interesting way,
SW: Yeah
GS: kind of randomly. So, what I’m trying to say is that, yes, people generally array their tom-toms—for instance, if you’re right handed—from left to right, so that as you
SW: Okay
GS: go across from left to right, you’re getting lower. But everybody’s different. And, some people like to mix it up. And, I mean, Ringo Starr was pretty famous for when he would—he still had that same configuration, but he would play his figures or fills, often starting on the low ones and working his way up. Which is kind of the opposite of what a lot of people do. So, there’s—
SW: Right.
GS: Even if you only have, you know, two or three or four pieces on your drum kit, there’s still so many different ways of approaching them, and all of them involve your personality and your sense of expression, which is pretty cool. I think that’s one of the neat things about drumming is, it’s a bit like some very severe or austere form of poetry. [chuckling] I mean, maybe this is a bit highfalutin’, but like, you know
SW: Oh! That’s neat!
GS: if you’re doing a poem, if it’s only got like a stricture of, of a very few lines and a very strict rhythm, you know, your choices are really important and every choice you make really stands out. So, in some ways, that’s, that’s the case with drumming, I think, because it’s not like you have a
SW: Yeah
GS: a classical harp or an 88-key piano at your disposal. You, you might only have three drums and a cymbal or something, but you can still create a lot of music in a very, you know, personalized way with that, which is really exciting.
SW: That I absolutely a hundred percent—a thousand percent agree with. I’m so fascinated because I think about, you know, you just mentioned pianos. I think about how there’s formal training for pianists
GS: Yeah
SW: and there’s, you know, schools and grades and you can work your way through, at the same time that you can learn to express yourself uniquely as a pianist. Are there, are there formal, like, training…grades or schools or progressions for drumming?
GS: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean
SW: Okay
GS: I think you might find people ask what your bona fides are a little less in drumming, but for sure there’s a huge, huge— I mean, I myself was not wise enough to delve into it, but there’s a massive orthodoxy that, you know, right from, I think a lot of it is based on martial drumming or orchestral drumming. So, like, a lot
SW: Okay
GS: a lot of snare drum traditions come from the type of drumming that was used in armed forces. So, a lot of the rudiments, as we call them, that were developed, were sort of based around how people would play them on a snare drum and oftentimes [chuckles] you know, really loud on a snare drum that was tuned really tight. And even a lot of the techniques involved with drumming, like, you might see—oftentimes you’ll see a drummer who’s holding a stick, the way you would customarily expect them to, in their, say, right hand. And then on their left hand, they’re holding a stick kind of sideways…
SW: Yeah
GS: as it were.
SW: Yeah, I’ve seen that.
GS: Yeah, so, that, that’s actually developed because people were playing snare drums that were necessarily on the side of their body. Like, they’re strapped in and the snare drum is played over here. So, you can play it normally with the one hand, and the other hand has to be kind of held at a crooked angle. So, still, I mean, that’s not how most people are—that’s not the context in which they’re playing, but that’s still a style and a technique that a lot of people employ. So, all this to say that there’s a, I mean, a huge amount of—a massive body of, of work on how to develop your snare drum playing and some classic instructional books that go back like a century.
SW: Right.
GS: And then, from there, some very, very robust, very scientific approaches to how to improve dexterity and speed and, the, the range of expression you can get and especially, you know, as, as jazz music got really serious, there’s a whole range of drum set approaches, and you can get really studied with it. You can get as studied with it as you could ever imagine. Put it this way, one of the most legendary of drum heroes in the last couple of generations, a jazz fusion drummer by the name of Dave Weckl, he at one point—though he was a hero and even a god to many drummers—he at one point decided he needed to go back and start all over again. And so he threw out his whole technique. You know, he was basically middle-aged. [Sandra gasps] Yeah, he went and studied with a masterful drum teacher and sort of reinvented his playing from the ground up. So, it’s just interesting. Yeah, there’s as much technique and theory out there for drum set as, as you could possibly imagine. It’s, it’s pretty dizzying even, yeah.
SW: Right. Yeah, okay, so then, I feel like I should say to listeners: I in no way mean to offend anyone by implying that I thought that there was nothing to drumming. [Grant laughs] I actually find, I find drumming fascinating.
GS; Yeah
SW: Because way back in the mists of time, my older cousin, one of my older cousins, had a set
GS: Oh?
SW: in the basement. It seems like everyone’s drum sets are in the basement
GS: [laughs] Yes
SW: especially in the 80s, rather than the garage. That’s, I think that’s an interesting shift in generations. [both laugh]
GS: Right
SW: But anyway. And so, I remember watching him practise and then, of course, we littler ones were, like, well, we want to try, we want to try. And I could not figure out how to do anything, like, two things at the same time [both laugh] on that set. So, I think that drumming looks so complicated and I—
GS: Mm. Mm-hm.
SW: It’s just fascinating to me. I mean, all musicians who look like they know what they’re doing, who do know what they’re doing, they look, they look amazing to me. So, one of the things I did want to ask about is, so we are— Right now, we’re talking about drum sets and drums that you play with sticks,
GS: Mm-hm, yep
SW: drum sticks.
GS: Yeah
SW: Of course, there’s a whole world of drum, drumming out there that you just do with hands. So, did you ever get into that or
GS: Oh yeah
SW: was that of interest to you?
GS: A little bit, yeah, I mean, enough to— I really resonate with what you’re saying. Like, I also, initially believed that drumming was just something, there’s nothing to it and you just do it. And I think [Sandra laughs] I do think that that’s kind of true. But I did, of course, learn that it’s fairly complex. [chuckles] As you get into it, you, you know, as with anything, you begin to discover what you don’t know. The more you know,
SW: Yea-a-h
GS: the more, like, exponentially you don’t know. So, that kind of happened to me too, with, with hand drumming, because I really do love the sound and the feel of it. And I did get a little bit into it and even played some hand drums on a couple of recording projects that I was on, in a very low key way.
SW: Oh? Okay
GS: Like, in addition to, just as overdubs, in addition to the, to the drum set playing, but I began to perceive that not only is hand drumming really interesting and expressive, but a lot of hand drumming techniques are related to, like, cultural context. And there was just so much to know. Like, it’s mind boggling the, like, regionality of, you know, say Conga playing even within a certain style of Afro-Cuban music, you know, from one region to another. Or, you know, one generation or style to another, it’s like a whole revolution. So, I became, at that point, more of an appreciator [chuckles] than a practitioner. But I did get an opportunity in high school to play not hand drums, but some orchestral drums,
SDW: Oh
GS: right around the same time that I was getting my first drum set, yeah, which was really exciting. I went to Old Scona Academic High School, which is a public school, but one with a real focus on not just academics, but also fine arts. And, I mean
SW: Right
GS: it sort of famously doesn’t have a gym and you just [Sandra laughs] In gym class, you play soccer all year long unless it’s too cold, in which case we literally used to go to Scona Bowl and play pool [both laugh] during gym class. So, very focused on academe and the arts. And I was really lucky to be—I was the only percussionist that tried out for the school band when I was in grade ten. So, I got to be in The Mikado, which was our production that year. And it was super fun. Like, I got to, you know, play drums in the school orchestra during music class. But then, we did this
SW: Yeah
GS: separate production, which involved basically every orchestral percussion instrument that they had, including timpani, which are the big kettle drums, you know, which you play with mallets
SW: Okay
GS: and they make the big exciting sound. And, and at the end of Act One, I got to do the big bvvvvv, you know, baaaah-duuuh, and I’m going bvbvbvbv all the way through. So that was super fun. Didn’t know anything about it at all, didn’t know how to read music, and literally was just
SW: Oh?
GS: faking my way through it and using my, my…listening to the source material and, and trying to remember it… It led to some, I don’t know, it yielded some very awkward situations too. Like, in music class where I looked at a 72-bar rest, which means you don’t play and it’s just like
SW: Yeah
GS: a big line that says “72.” And by this point, I taught myself what a, what a bar must mean. So I thought, what does this big line mean? I was like, probably a snare drum roll..? [laughs] So I just started playing [both crack up] this snare drum roll through this very quiet piccolo part. And then finally the music teacher had to stop. I was like, okay. Anyway, but it was a ton of fun. Getting to play orchestral production was really enjoyable because there’s so much colour to it. You know, a lot, a lot of times you’re playing with tune percussion, which means, you know, they are, you know, making musical, harmonic statements, as well. Again, something I was not prepared for at the time, but it’s, it’s definitely been something I’ve thought about a lot since and was really fruitful and, and fun for me. Super, super enjoyable.
SW: Yeah. So, did you eventually teach yourself to read music?
GS: Yeah, by and by, I kind of faked my way
SW: Yeah, okay
GS: through just enough [Sandra laughs] that I could be like, Okay, that must be what three quarter time means. And if that’s the case, then this. So, I was able to then, even though I quit [cracks up] I quit Band after grade ten because it was just [both laugh]
SW: Right
GS: horrifically stressful to try to fake my way through it. I don’t know why I didn’t just tell the teacher, Hey, I’ve literally never done this before. I’ve never taken these classes…
SW: Right.
GS: I felt like I was—
SW: But, you know, when we’re, when we’re teens
GS: [laughs] Yeah. Yeah
SW: we make choices
GS: We do!
SW: that are not always the smartest.
GS: [laughing] Yeah. And bless him, he, he allowed me to just show just enough of what I could could do, that he kind of kept giving me opportunities to do the next thing. So, I was able to kind of take that
SW: Nice
GS: and then, once I moved on to my own sort of course of study, as it were, I did get a bunch of books and was able to figure out what they were trying to say and
SW: [laughing] Cool
GS: built up a few basic building blocks, yeah, because I was totally self-taught and that was a, you know, it was funny to just, like… Because I’d been, I spent my whole life up until that point imagining what it would be like to play drums, I actually was pretty okay, pretty serviceable by the time I started, because I’d kind of been just air-drumming for so long. [chuckles] But then, once I actually sort of dug in and realized that I had a lot of work to do, that was a bit of a
SW: Right
GS: That was a, that was an uphill climb for sure.
SW: Wow. So, I do know you mentioned also at the start that you really got into, you said blues drumming especially.
GS: Yeah.
SW: But also a little bit of country. So can you, like, how did you get started? How did you…how do you choose [laughs]
GS: Yeah.
SW: you know, what kind of drumming you wanted to do? How did you do that?
GS: Well, that’s a great question because I think a lot of it has to do with, you know, what your milieu is, and what’s, what opportunities there are. And I was really lucky because
SW: Yeah
GS: my parents loved music and, and my father particularly loved blues and it’s interesting because we lived in Halifax until I was about ten years of age, and then we moved to Edmonton. And as soon as we did, my parents discovered CKUA, which is, like, this great radio station that… I mean, they were into classical, they have great classical programming. They were into blues, they have the best blues programming in the world.
SW: Yeah
GS: They just kind of discovered this whole community and universe. Where previously, they had, you know, a few record albums and would go out to see a cultural event or a concert once in a while. When they moved to Edmonton, they just started inhaling the cultural community that we live in here and immediately started
SW: Cool!
GS: becoming season ticket holders to everything, and, you know, volunteering for things. And yeah, it was really neat to see that. And one of the things that happened is that my father kind of fell off the edge [chuckles] where he had been, like, kind of on the precipice of being in this—you know, he was kind of this nascent giant blues fan and had, back in the day, you know, they’d gone to see Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee when they lived in Montreal, you know, in the 60s at a coffeehouse and all these things. And he preferred the Rolling Stones [chuckles] to the Beatles, but he wasn’t really like a full-on [Sandra laughs] full-blown fanatic yet. But once we got to Edmonton, it just all, you know, it all unraveled for him [both laugh] and it became, you know, this, this passionate blues fan. And also, CJSR had this amazing blues program at the time hosted by Doug Langille, called Off the Wall. It was incredible. So, he had all this great blues coming at him, and he started deciding that he needed to get some for himself. And at the time, this was sort of like pre-functional internet. He was writing away to mail order catalogues that, you know…
SW: Wow
GS: Before you knew it, he had assembled, like, you know, thousands of blues albums of his own and, and even became [chuckles] the host of the CJSR blues show himself
SW: Yeah
GS: when he literally phoned Doug one day and said, Hey, you’re great, you don’t know me, but you just—I gotta tell you, people that fill in for you when you’re away don’t know anything about blues and you should get me instead. And he did. [both laugh]
SW: Nice!
GS: Yeah, I know! My dad started bringing me in to, to, quote-unquote, help him, even though he was literally a university professor who was used to presenting.
SW: [laughs] Yeah
GS: Like, he would bring in his own record collection with detailed notes, like a sheaf of notes, to present on-air.
SW: Wow
GS: He was just, it was very kind of him to let me hang out because I was [laughs] bringing no value to proceedings, but [Sandra laughs] it was, that was my beginning in radio. And I was also deeply falling in love with blues at the time, too. And so it really was meaningful for me. And then, eventually that, you know, naturally led to, I’d always been interested in it, but it kind of, gravitating more and more towards playing blues. And, you know, we’re so lucky, Sandra, we live in this—I don’t know if Edmontonians necessarily realize, but
SW: Yeah
GS: it’s a very blues-loving part of the world. And, and that’s partly down to the great radio and infrastructure that we have here. But, there’s been a bunch of great live venues here in Edmonton for blues and other things, for a long time.
SW: Yeah
GS: When I was a kid, you could go to the Blues on Whyte. For four nights out of the week, you could pay no cover. And the remaining three nights of the week, very little. There was live music every night, and some of the best of the best of blues artists were passing through there. And so, I’d go there when I was, you know, 18 or 19 and have a coffee for, you know three and a half hours [chuckles] and
SW: [laughs] Yeah
GS: just, you know, soak it all in. So, it was, a lot of what happened was just, I spent so much time hanging out at the Blues on Whyte pub, at the Commercial Hotel, and other great live venues, that I sort of fell in with the community. And then, it just kind of
SW: Yeah
GS: it’s kind of went from there, you know.
SW: Oh, and also, I’m just going to say, I recognize, being a parent, that your dad was like—I think he succeeded because he brought you with him into the studio
GS: Yes!
SW: when he doing this blues show and voilà, look at you. [both laugh] You know, you’re a blues musician and a blues lover and you are also a blues show host…
GS: Yeah.
SW: at that same station, CJSR, on that same program, correct?
GS: Yeah. You’re correct. It, it feels really good. My father, when he took it over, decided to call the show Calling All Blues, which is the name of a 1950s Chicago blues instrumental, which itself, I guess, was a play on Calling All Cars, which was a popular TV show at the time. [both laugh] Sort of a dated reference, but that’s still
SW: Yeah
GS: the title of the show, and my father passed away in 2007. But I’ve continued to co-host that show ever since then, with my great friend Graham Guest, who was always, you know, part of our broadcast team on one level or another.
SW: Yeah
GS: So, Graham and I have been hosting it since then, and it’s just been an amazing thing, especially, you know, feeling connected to my father’s legacy and as you say, like, that’s really what made me who I am. And
SW: Right
GS: and the fact that he took the time to do that. Being a father of two young boys now myself, I can’t imagine [laughs] voluntarily thinking, [Sandra laughs] You know what this needs?…I need to bring my teenage son [both crack up] into this.
SW: [still laughing] Yeah
GS: You know? But that’s what he did. And I’m so grateful. And, you know, the the fact that we still get to share this great music every week, every Wednesday. I mean, we’re still there. And phenomenally, like, I still can’t even believe it, but the show has won the Campus Community Radio Award for Best Blues or Jazz Show a couple of times in recent years,
SW: Hooray!
GS: which blows my mind! And just, all of this is definitely a tribute to my father and the way that he wanted to bring people into whatever he felt passionate about and wanted to share.
SDW: Right
GS: And was so…you know, so eloquent in the way that—and welcoming—in the way that he did. So I mean, for my, my mother and my father who are, you know, that’s been their whole life is…is sharing what they’re feeling passionate about and trying to…trying to, I guess, inculcate a kind of curiosity in the people that are joining them. That, that’s just so incredibly beautiful. So, I’m so privileged to, to still be able to volunteer at this amazing
SW: Yeah
GS: campus community radio station, even though that’s, that’s technically my profession now these days. So it’s kind of kind of a busman’s holiday, but I really do feel [Sandra chuckles] very, very blessed that Graham and I get to do that.
SW: Yeah. And it strikes me too, like—and I hope it’s not presumptuous. I’m just thinking, I can imagine that, you know, maybe a little bit what was behind your dad’s thinking of bringing the teenage—teenager [Grant chuckles] into the studio with him for that show is to, is to demonstrate that the blues aren’t for only a certain age group.
GS: Yeah, right.
SW: Right? It’s for any age group.
GS: [excitedly] Yeah
SW: It’s for a huge range. Anyone can
GS: [excitedly] Yeah
SW: can be a blues fan.
GS: You’re so right! And that’s funny because that was a lesson that I learned firsthand at the Blues on Whyte pub in the Commercial Hotel.
SW: Yeah
GS: Because for a lot of reasons, it became this crossroads for people. I mean, I was kind of there because I love blues and was broke and was [both laugh] well, you know, all these reasons that it made sense for me. But also, that was, at a certain time and still is to this day, kind of a mainstay of Whyte Ave culture in Edmonton. So for those that don’t know, Whyte Avenue is kind of, like, The Strip. You know, it’s like 6th Ave [sic; I think he meant 6th Street] in Austin or Beale Street in Memphis. And it’s a, you know, a fairly short few blocks of, of bars and nightclubs and cafes. But the Blues on Whyte always occupied a very special place in that firmament, because it was open late. So, like, you could get a beer all the way up until one minute to 2:00 a.m. [both chuckle] every night of the week, and you could get off-sales right till 3 a.m. every day of the week.
SW: [still chuckling] Right
GS: It was the cheapest place, well, one of the cheapest places. So, all this meant that whoever you were and wherever you started your night on Whyte Ave, there was a pretty good chance you were going to wind up at the Commercial. [both laugh] They’re going to be open, they’re going to be cheap. They’re going to have off-sales. They’re going to have live music. Maybe you didn’t know what this blues stuff was, but hey, it’s pretty good.
SW: Yeah.
GS: And your friends are probably there, too. So you—at the end of the night, you’d see, like, you know, members of The Smalls would be there, members of Old Reliable
SW: Oooh
GS: would be hanging out. All these great musicians from all across different scenes. And, you know, you got like, punk rockers and, you know, elderly poets and, like, just such a [Sandra laughs] great cross-section of people. And, as you say, Sandra, a lot of young people and just getting to see the way that they, like, organically connected with the live music they were hearing, even though they wouldn’t necessarily be like, Oh, that’s a Jimmy Rogers song. Or, you know [Sandra laughs] That’s a Lightnin’ Hopkins song, I appreciate their arrangement of it. They would just instantly connect with, with what that was telling them and that information they were getting from the stage and
SW: Right, right
GS: often would take them straight to the dance floor. So, seeing so many packed dance floors full of, like, young people with mohawks [both laugh] and all kinds of different [chuckles] That really showed me that, as you say, that blues is for everyone. It’s, it’s a very emotional music that connects with people.
SW: Yeah. Oh, that’s so cool. Okay. I just want to, like, bring it back to you a little bit more
GS: Hm-hm
SW: and ask, like, when you were getting into the style of blues drumming, did you just… So, I see a lot of videos nowadays, on different social media platforms, where you see young children.
GS: Yeah
SW: They’re playing, they’re—and they’re young drummers. They’re phenomenally talented because those are the ones [laughs] that we see videos of being shared everywhere, but they’re playing along to very well-known songs. So, is that just…was that something you did? You just, like, picked a song and just started practising to that until you felt like you got it?
GS: Yeah, that was a big part of it, actually.
SW: Okay
GS: I mean, we didn’t have that kind of infrastructure back in my day, and maybe I’m kind of happy that we didn’t because [Sandra laughs] I probably would have been one of those people who was trying to, like, nail some tricky song and put it up on YouTube or something, but—
SW: [laughing] Yeah
GS: I was just trying to do it in my basement. That is the best. I mean, in many ways, you know, it’s great to get a grounding in the theory of it all, but in some ways it’s best just to jump right in. Pick one thing that you want to try to chew on for a while and figure out. And then once you do, it’s so rewarding and it becomes such a part of your own personal…musical soul because you kind of figured it out for yourself. So
SW: Yeah
GS: even though I have, and had, especially, that kind of limited range [chuckles] of what I could do, I feel like everything that I learned was really hard, hard-won. And I just would listen to music that I found dynamic and interesting and try to figure out what the drummer was doing and just play along to that. And, it’s funny, the, you mentioned the basement phenomenon. I was down there
SW: Yeah
GS: just clattering away endlessly. And one of the things that I tried to do, was learn how to play a certain Led Zeppelin beat to When the Levee Breaks, which is kind of a notoriously great but also, you know, somewhat challenging for, for beginners. A drum beat that involves independence of limbs. In particular, your bass drum has to go on and off beat in a way that’s really, really hard when you’re just starting. And it’s funny because everybody has that experience, Sandra, of like, Oh, I don’t know how anybody can play the drums. I, I tried to play drums once and I couldn’t
SW: Yeah!
GS: I couldn’t make my limbs go independently of each other at all. It’s like, well, yeah, it’s just like you, you know, if you’re trying to play the flute, that might take you more than a minute as well [chuckles] you know, but the independence is something that, it’s difficult to, you know… To get your limbs to talk in different languages [chuckles] you know, at the same time can be tricky. So, this is a really simple and really approachable way of doing that. It took me a long time—like weeks—and I remember when I finally got it, I felt like I was at the top of the world. And then, I went upstairs afterwards and my sister Laura was there. She was like, You got it! Like [laughs] she’d clearly been listening to me belabor [both laugh] this, hopelessly, for a long time. And I finally got it, it felt so good. That is a great way to do it, though, I really encourage—
SW: Okay
GS: I also think, Sandra, everybody should play drums because it really is—unlike, say, violin or, you know, French horn, it’s something you can make a sound on, possibly a pleasing sound, very quickly [Sandra laughs] right away even. And it’s really satisfying. So whether or not you get to be quote-unquote good or anything like that, it’s really fun. And I just think everybody should do it because it’s great.
SW: Okay. So that is a great segue into my next question, which is, for people who are not sure, what’s a good, what’s a good way to start? Like, you could buy things, you could just buy a set of drumsticks and start wailing on tables in your home [Grant chuckles] to teach yourself, you know, what would it be? Timings or rhythms
GS: Mm-hm
SW: I suppose. [pause] What do you, what would you suggest, as a long time drummer, for someone who just wants to, like, dabble a little bit and see if it, if it’s fun for them?
GS: Yeah, totally.
SW: How can they start?
GS: You can grab yourself a pair of drumsticks and they have these things called practice pads, which are, a little piece of, of wood which has some rubber over top of it. So you can kind of play as if you were playing on a drum, but it makes very little sound. So, a lot of times
SW: Ohh?
GS: people will practise their rudiments on a practice pad, but it’s also just a great way to get a feel for what that would be like. And that’s a great way to do it, and reasonably inexpensive, I think, too. There’s other ways, as well. I also really enjoy just playing with brushes, which is like a kind of gentler sounding drum [chuckles] apparatus, which is kind of—instead of sticks, you got these brushes, which are like wire brushes, splayed out so they make a, a more diffuse sound on drums and cymbals. So, you can actually take brushes and just play on a tabletop and get a, get a sense of how that feels. That’s how I like to practise and warm up a lot too, because it has an interesting, interesting feel. It’s good for, for building up your, your finger and wrist muscles, too. So that’s, that’s probably an approachable way of doing it.
SW: Okay. And so then, like, just thinking about, like, genres of music, are there certain genres that are easier to learn the drum parts to, than other genres? Because it seems to me jazz is very complicated…
GS: [laughs] Yes, seems to me that way, too.
SW: [chuckles] for example.
GS: [laughing] I think so. I think if you really want to get the building blocks, I’d say, like, listen to some really, really approachable and simple R&B or rock music. Because a lot of times
SW: Okay
GS: the drumming is really prominent. And a lot of times, because of the, sort of, collective nature of…the way the music gets aimed at people in a kind of larger, sort of, group-oriented capacity, a lot of times, the drumming is, is relatively streamlined in terms of what it’s laying down. So you can really hear, like, for instance, if you listen to a lot of, like, [chuckles] Led Zeppelin or AC/DC, the drumming is often
SW: Right
GS: pretty simple, and you might even start to pick—your ear will pick out what it’s doing pretty fast. I’d also really recommend, I’m a huge fan of… One of my favorite drummers is Al Jackson Jr., who played drums with the house band at Stax Records in Memphis
SW: Ahhh
GS: in the 1960s. So they had some big hits of their own, but also they backed up Otis Redding, and Sam and Dave, and all these other incredible artists. And his, his sense of musicality was incredibly economical. So you can hear what he’s doing very clearly and he varies from it extremely little. So [both chuckle] it’s a great way of picking up on, on what a drummer does.
SW: That is wonderful. Thank you so much. I could grill you [Grant laughs] for hours more, but I know that we should probably start wrapping up. So let’s jump into our Small Joys segment. So, Grant Stovel, what is something that you do or that you have that lifts your spirits when you need it?
GS: Oh, I’d say probably…walking to work in the mornings because I do this really wildly early show.
SW: Really?
GS: Yeah. It starts—the broadcast that I do on weekdays starts at 6:00 a.m., so it’s kind of ridiculous for me to spend even a moment longer than I need to getting ready for it. And I used to try to sleep in til the last possible moment, just to sort of maximize
SW: [laughing] Right
GS: you know, the amount of awakeness I have. But then I realized, you know, maybe this is kind of the opposite of what I should be doing. Maybe I should be up and good and awake at 6:00 a.m. and then, you know, I’ll really— and then I can fall into a million pieces at 9:00 a.m., when I get off the air. [both laugh] And one thing that helped that was, was learning how to enjoy walking to work. It originally started because my [laughs] car broke down, so I [Sandra laughs] I could have taken the bus or the train, but, literally, the first bus and train at that time arrived so late, that if it was even a few minutes late, I would probably miss the start of my show. [chuckles] So I started walking and I just discovered that I loved it. And, I live on the other side of the river valley from CKUA, which is in downtown Edmonton. So I get to walk through the beautiful river valley every day. It’s about a…35-minute walk, or more
SW: Mm-mm
GS: if there’s lots of snow and ice, but starting to do it in the nicer months, and then walking all year long, I just found I became acclimatized and I really came to love it. So now, if something occurs where I need to be in the studio way early and I don’t have time to walk, or maybe I have to take the car in for, to get the tires changed after I get off work or something, and I need to drive to work, or I need to take a cab or something, I actually feel a little bit bummed out. I’m like, Aw, darn it, I didn’t get my walk in today. You know, it’s, it is really beautiful. I do really cherish it a lot.
SW: Yeah. Oh, that’s really lovely. Yeah. And that echoes a lot of my feelings about just, like, being outside.
GS: Mm, yeah
SW: You know, and maybe it’s because we live in a city where winter can sometimes be six months.
GS: Yes, yes.
SW: And you know, you can’t spend six months inside only. [laughs] You really can’t. You have to get out there
GS: You gotta find a way to
SW: right? For our mental health.
GS: make a bargain with that thing
SW: Yeah [laughs]
GS: we call winter for sure. Yeah, I love it.
SW: Yeah, yeah. And not that we’re maligning winter. We are not.
GS: No
SW: We’re just talking about ways to keep our spirits up. [laughs]
GS: Gorgeous and magical, yeah, I’m with you.
SW: Awesome. Okay, so as we wrap up, again, it’s the, my world-famous Speed Round, and [laughs] Grant, this is where I will give you a choice of two options. And you just answer off the top of your head, whatever comes to mind, whatever thoughts or comments, [laughs] questions, [Grant laughs] concerns. Probably not concerns. [both laughing] And there’s no, no right or wrong and we’re just being silly. So, are you ready?
GS: I’ve been warming up all day.
SW: Okay, awesome. Okay, here we go. Popcorn or potato chips?
GS: Popcorn.
SW: Oh, that was fast.
GS: Yeah
SW: Jelly beans or jujubes?
GS: Jujubes, only by association with the CKUA fundraising season, which a certain Sandra Wong might be familiar with.
SW: [laughing] Uh-huh.
GS: Yeah.
SW: Oh, nice. Okay. Sweet or savoury?
GS: Savoury. Weirdly, I was always ‘sweet.’ And then something happened a few years ago. I don’t know if this happens to everyone as they age, but now I literally find myself skipping dessert entirely. And I used to wonder, why do people like salty things? I don’t get that at all. [Sandra laughs] And yeah, a flip switched and a big time polar shift happened. So yeah, savoury.
SW: Okay. Yeah. Okay. That’s just, you know, part of, of aging gracefully, I think, it’s just accepting… [both laugh] Okay. This one—okay, we probably know the answer, but I’m gonna ask anyway. Night owl or early bird?
GS: [cracks up] I’m actually, believe it or not, I am a night owl. I’m, I’m the most nocturnal person I’ve ever known. It’s so weird. It’s like cosmic karmic correction that I’m now doing—I literally get up earlier than I ever used to go to bed. Like, literally. I’m up now
SW: Wo-ow
GS: at 4:00 a.m. or earlier, and I used to go to bed at 7:00 or 8:00 or 9:00 a.m. for whatever reason. That’s just how I’m wired. So, this is kind of, like, still part of the same buzz almost, because you get up, it’s the middle of the night, it’s quiet. [Sandra laughs] You know, that’s… I didn’t used to party. [both laugh] I just used to like to stay up all night and play drums like that. That was it.
SW: Okay. Well, but you also, in your radio career, you also used to host a late show
GS: You have done your research. Yes.
SW: back in the day. [laughs]
GS: Yeah, for the first long time, yeah. It was funny. I used to get to do the overnight show and the beloved Baba was the full time overnight host
SW: Yes-s-s
GS: and I came in just doing one or two nights a week. Literally, just kind of got hired by fluke because they were desperate and needed somebody. [Sandra laughs] And I knew the production person at the time who was in charge of supervising production. I literally ran into him at the Commercial [laughs] Hotel one night. He’s like, Hey, you kind of do radio, right? And the next thing I knew, I was doing, this spare…bit part at CKUA overnights, and it was amazing. It was so much fun. And sometimes, I would even go straight from a gig [cracks up] to do the radio show, which is pretty hilarious.
SW: Wow
GS: Yeah, that was really fun.
SW: Yeah. That’s awesome. Well, yes, I’ve known quite a few night owls in my time. So, you know, kudos to you for managing the morning show. [both laugh] Okay, here we go, we’re going to keep going. Socks or bare feet?
GS: Socks.
SW: Mm, okay. Ocean voyage or mountain cabin?
GS: [inhales sharply; whispers] Mountain cabin.
SW: Fine dining or drive-thru?
GS: Oh, that’s tough. I would have said drive-thru at one stage in my life, but now, I’m saying fine dining.
SW: [cracks up] Again, aging gracefully. This is how we do it.
GS: [laughs] Right. It’s part of being open-minded.
SW: [laughing] Okay. And the last one is, mild or spicy?
GS: Spicy, as spicy as you got. [laughs]
SW: Sp-i-icy…excellent. [laughs] I love it. Thank you so much, Grant. I wish we could go on and on. I lovetalking to musicians about music and how they learn and what they, you know, how they progress. So, maybe some other time, we can get back to more in-depth about blues drumming and your history as a musician. But I so appreciate that you’ve made the time for us today.
GS: Thank you, Sandra. I feel like this has just flown right by and just wow, what a, what a brilliant thing it is just to get a chance to chat about music sometimes, you know, and share and swap back and forth. I, I just—that’s one of the chief joys in life for me. So thank you for this.
SW: Thank you. Okay. So, thank you, listeners, for joining us. Oh, I should probably ask you, Grant, you don’t really have, like, a website with the best— What would be the best place for people, if they wanted to, like, find out more about you? Would it be your CKUA page or..?
GS: Yeah, I suppose there’s some material there. I have been cajoled into doing some—even though I’m not on social media myself, per se—I do occupy a small and ludicrous space in CKUA’s social media programing sometimes. There’s, there is a, I think, a bio of me that is up on our website right now, but if, if people are interested, they can just send me an email if they like, because we’re all, you know, really available at CKUA. It’s just grant@ckua.com if you’d like to say hello. And I’m happy to do some version of what, what Sandra and I are doing right now [laughs] with you over email.
SW: That’s so kind, so kind! And I will put the links up on the show notes, of course. Thank you so much for that, Grant. Okay, so yes, friends, as I said, show notes will have those links and also on my website, which is sgwong.com, I have my podcast page and you’ll see links there, as well. So thank you for joining us, Grant. Thank you for joining us, lovelies out there in Listener Land. Until next time, create joy for yourself and others, however works for you—because…we contain multitudes.
[jazzy jumpin’ music]SW: We Contain Multitudes is on The Incomparable network of smart and funny pop culture podcasts where members can access exclusive podcasts and a wonderful community. Find out more at theincomparable.com.
Special thanks, as always, to Erika Ensign, our editrix extraordinaire of Castria Communications. Award-winning excellence in podcast production and media solutions. Check them out at wearecastria.com.
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[digital blip sound]SHOW NOTES:
Find Grant on CKUA and via grant@ckua.com.
Hidden Track podcast
Lillo’s Music
Dave Weckl
Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee
Doug Langille, host of Off the Wall (CJSR)
Blues on Whyte
Calling All Blues, feat. Junior Wells, Earl Hooker et al.
Calling All Cars (1935) radio show
Calling All Blues on CJSR Radio
NCRA Community Radio Awards
The Smalls
Old Reliable
Jimmy Rogers
Lightnin’ Hopkins
When the Levee Breaks by Led Zeppelin
A starting point to find out about Al Jackson Jr.
Stax Records
Boot Leg by Booker T & The MG’s (as requested by Grant)
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